Boat Launch observations Epcot, BW, YC-BC, S-D, DHS with scooter.

RaySharpton

Retired and going to Disney.
Joined
Oct 28, 2000
Boat Launch observations Epcot, BW, YC-BC, S-D, DHS with scooter.

Four Handicap spaces for two wheelchairs and two motorized vehicles.

No more than two each.

No three wheelchairs and no three motorized vehicles.

Boat launch captains allowed baby stroller in Handicap 4 spaces and all seemed afraid to ask them to move. This left wheelchairs and motorized vehicles waiting for another boat.

This is from personal observations from inside the boat launch and from the pier waiting line.

Almost all boat launch said they could not do anything and threw their hands up and apologized. I think they might have been afraid to cause stroller complaints.

There were times in the first two weeks of December that I had to wait 3 to 4 boat launches. This week it was slower to where I was able to get on 1st or 2nd boat.

I must admit that the first two weeks were the most crowded parks and resorts in over a decade. But this third week seems a whole lot less crowded.

Also timing is important with Epcot Illuminations and DHS Osborne Lights. The boats will be full. Timing is everything. But so is my battery. I do love traveling the sidewalks from DHS to Epcot on the Beach and BW sides.

I have had a wonderful time this year. Sunny every day and brief rain on one day.
 
Sorry to hear that until the coast guards makes it alas about the strollers or Disney decides to make it policy. It will keep happening I think your 100 percent right about them not wanting stroller complaints as I don't think Disney managers back the cms as much as they should.
 
Sorry to hear that until the coast guards makes it alas about the strollers or Disney decides to make it policy. It will keep happening I think your 100 percent right about them not wanting stroller complaints as I don't think Disney managers back the cms as much as they should.

I think that I was completely thrown off guard how the crowds had grown so large from December 2nd through December 15th, 2013.

I think that the economy has picked up that those families that hadn't been on vacation in years were finally able to go. I think that all of the MVMCP were sold out during the stated dates, and Epcot's Candlelight Processional Stand Line reached past the curved queue line on past Italy. The said those in line for the 5pm show might get in the the 8pm show. Not this week though.


After a few days I finally realized that the huge crowds were here to stay and then I accepted the waits. A lot of folks didn't and expressed their unhappiness verbally.

I was staying at the Swan Resort.

The bus drivers were very nice.
 
We didn't have to use the boats, but I so agree about the crowds. I couldn't believe it. Over the last 5 years we pretty much have been going the first or second week of December and never had it so busy.

Actually, based on our trip this year we are giving Disney a rest and perhaps permanently. At our ages and abilities this past trip was too hard and frustrating for us. That's not what vacation is all about.

Part of this decision not to come back is based on us staying offsite. We won't kennel our dog and we take her with us on trips; so, we stay offsite. Since, we were second class citizens staying offsite with no fastpass plus privileges on this trip it was even worse for us. The standby waits for rides were very bad for us. I was grateful we were able to get dinner packages for Fantasmic and Candlelight Processional. We enjoyed the holiday fair; so, our trip was partially successful, but not worth the money for the trip. We did not get good value this trip.

I actually felt old on this trip. I didn't have the patience for the long waits for rides. We have been doing other trips over the last 5 years that we definitely enjoyed more than this one and for less money.

It may be time to do other trips and experiences.
 
We were there the same time (Dec 8th-16th) and had the same experience as Bete. We stayed offsite at Wyndham Bonnet Creek, so even though we are annual passholders did not qualify for FP+. We tried to get a DAC for my 80 y/o mom who is a very brittle diabetic with frequent unexpected drops in her blood sugar, has bad arthritis that causes her to move very slowly, unsteady gait, is on meds that require limited sun exposure, has breathing problems with frequent severe shortness of breath, easily tires, has some mild senile dementia, severe anxiety, panic attacks, and does not do well at all in crowded queues. GS at both DS and Epcot said she did not qualify for a DAC, because she had an ECV. They would not listen that she had medical problems not met with her ECV. At DS we were basically told that DACs were only for kids with autism and there was nothing available for older guests. We were told to just use FP-. The only problem with that is it is not always possible to make rope drops with an ill, senile 80 y/o, so FP- would be gone before we could get there or would be for such a late return time, that we'd be out of the parks before we could use them. We were basically stuck waiting in long stand by lines and some of those my mom just could not handle. We would have been fine if they had just let her wait in a quieter, less crowded place, but they refused. After just a couple of days we saw that wasn't going to work and decided to just waste our annual passes and spent most of the trip doing stuff offsite, avoiding the Disney parks for the last part of the trip. They just aren't worth it now and don't seem as handicap friendly, especially if you are staying offsite.
 
Is the child in the stroller assumed to be more ambulatory than the adult in the wheelchair? If so, based on what?

There are many adults using ECV that, based on blind assumption, seem perfectly capable of walking around on their own and not taking up 3 spots on the bus.

But intelligent and empathetic human beings don't make judgments like this because we know that the wholeness of the situation is not always available to the eyes of strangers.
 
Is the child in the stroller assumed to be more ambulatory than the adult in the wheelchair? If so, based on what?

I completely agree with you, cobright, and the answer is an absolute, no. A child in a regular stroller or specially equipped stroller or even if the only child sitting in a twin stroller, etc.; and is not assumed to be more ambulatory than an adult in a wheelchair or using a cane on not using any mobility device. Same for a child.

Cobright, based on my personal experience of staying at the Swan Resort and using the boat launch from from the following five boat launch stops in the circuit from Epcot to BW to BC/YC to Swan to DHS. I was on vacation and I enjoyed the beautiful days and nights of all the areas when waiting for the next boat launch. It gave me a time to reflect on how lucky I was to be at WDW. There was only one day that it rained while I was at WDW and even though heavy, the rain was very brief. Very unusual to not even have afternoon, evening rain showers.

Cobright, I also stayed at the Swan Resort for eighteen days using this boat launch when not using the sidewalks if I was worried about the battery. I was able to use the bus to AK and MK and DTD. No busses were available for the previous stops listed unless coming from a Disney Park, etc.

Cobright, while actually already on the boat launch in transit, I had a few boat launch captains verbally asked a parent if they they could move their stroller and they did move it to allow a wheelchair to park. There were many strollers with infants asleep in their stroller parked in one of the handicapped spots. Cobright, I think that most understanding people would understand leaving that infant in that space, but that is my personal opinion. I understand that on a bus they may not have that option and must fold up the stroller to enter the bus. While if a parent asked on a bus, they were, of course, allowed to tie down their stroller and child on the bus handicap space and enter up the bus side ramp as they entered the handicap bus queue gate or entrance.

I think that many parent or parents were just tired and did not have handicap experience. Many parents just parked their single or double strollers in the boat launch handicap area and carried their child to a seat or the older children sitting in the stroller just went with their parents to sit down. There were many strollers left in one or two spaces.

While on the boat, I saw where some boat captains asked if the parents could fold up their strollers so that a wheelchair could enter and park and most parents did just that. But, many boat launch captains did not ask and left wheelchairs at the BW and BC/YC and Swan on their way to DHS based on my personal observations.

Cobright, I also know that parent's strollers cannot be allowed in the open rear area in the rear of the boat launch and nor are they allowed in the walkway inside the boat launch for emergency situations and I always saw this enforced. Of course, people were allowed to stand in the open area and walkway area.

Cobright, I think that since parents can't park in the rear of the of the open boat launch, nor walkways, it may seem natural for them to just park their strollers in the four handicap areas or just stand in the handicap areas.

Cobright, while waiting for a boat launch to arrive and told by the boat launch captain that I was couldn't board because it was full was understandable to me because of what I posted in my first post of it being very busy and leaving at unusual times of people wanting to go to DHS for Osborne Lights or to Epcot for Illuminations while they went from one park to another. Even if not during those special times the resorts and parks seemed to be the busiest in over a decade for me after staying in the first two weeks of December every year.

Cobright, I, like so many others know that you should never judge infants, children, or adults by their looks. Frankly, I personally believe that no one should be judged about anything. I believe only God can judge.


There are many adults using ECV that, based on blind assumption, seem perfectly capable of walking around on their own and not taking up 3 spots on the bus.

Cobright, most of the buses only have two handicap spots, some do have three handicap spots, and one bus has four handicap spaces based on my experience talking with the bus supervisors at MK. Even the new double or expanded busses only have two handicap spaces based on my conversation with the bus supervisor at MK and Art of Annimation bus driver of at double or expanded bus.

Cobright, I read on many Disney boards that many people say the same thing, but personally speaking, I just cannot judge anyone as you do not judge anyone. I cannot help those that seem to judge, but I have been known to step in and defend a parent with a child or adult in that situation at a bus stop.

Cobright, I see many a parent or parents struggle so hard when leaving a park trying to fold up their stroller or strollers when entering the bus and trying to manage their small children at the same time on a standing only bus. This is why I can understand why parents see an open space on a boat launch and just park their strollers without understanding the handicap area use.


But intelligent and empathetic human beings don't make judgments like this because we know that the wholeness of the situation is not always available to the eyes of strangers.

Cobright, I completely agree with you. I hope that you and everyone else does not think that I judge people based on what the situation looks like. I do try and understand the complaining person and at WDW, and I try to place myself in their place. Maybe a dad was having a bad day and was very tired while at MK all day and said something out of frustration that he would not normally say. I try not to take taunts personally.

I have not proof read this and just typed this. If I made any typing errors or if I didn't express myself properly, I will try and come back and see what mistakes that I might have made.

I refuse to let anyone to take away my joy.
 
It's cool Ray. You expressed yourself within the context of your own experiences. That's always a fair position to take (in my opinion).

I've been on both sides of it personally. I've seen that guy get out of the car in a handicap space then walk 3 miles of Christmas shopping. Yet my wife had a problem pregnancy and couldn't get a handicap tag during the icy Michigan winter months because being pregnant is not a disability. Your feelings about an individual experience are based on what you see at the time.

I don't have mobility issues and the very thought of being reliant on the hodge-podge system of special rules and devices put in place for people who do terrifies me. I know that I would experience frustration on such a scale, seeing a fit person using up the one or two spots that would have allowed me to travel normally. I also know families with kids that look darn normal in a stroller but simply cannot be hoisted up on a shoulder like I usually do with my kids when things get crowded.

I thank Buddha, for showing me a way to let those frustrations exist without me (or vice versa), but I do get it.
 
I agree with you, Ray.
In a lot of ways, people at WDW are in their own little bubble - they are looking at the next thing in front of them and thinking about where they are going next.
Many are looking, but not seeing.

So, to someone with a stroller, a space in the boat is just a space they can park their stroller in. Even if it is marked with a wheelchair symbol or sign, they may not 'see' it, because they are looking only at the space.
We've had the experience that someone had parked their stroller in a way that they took up most of the space or blocked access so others couldn't get to the space.
Most people do move if a CM points it out to them. Some are sort of horrified that they didn't think, some are sort of 'whatever' and others are not happy to be told to move. Tiredness and bring in your own bubble does that.

PS - I like your Christmas picture in your signature, Ray.:)
 
I know there were people who saw youngest DD when she was little and saw just a little girl.
image7.jpg


Some noticed the wheelchair and knew it was a wheelchair. Some saw it and thought it was just a weird looking stroller (even though it was a tiny traditional wheelchair with very large back tires).
We know because there were people who argued they should be allowed to bring their stroller in places because 'that family is bringing their stroller."

So, people in their own bubble looked, but didn't see and DD was able to blend in.
As an adult, she doesn't blend in, although some people still look at her and think (and say), "doesn't need the wheelchair, just using it".
For someone who actually sees and understands, there are a lot of signs that show DD is more disabled than it appears at first view - straps securely attaching her feet to her wheelchair footrests - using her right arm in this picture to brace herself so she can reach out and point with her left arm.
2590P4170104.JPG


We lived with a girl in a wheelchair as the ADA was getting enacted and put into effect. We went places that were not wheelchair accessible, like a museum where our entry choices were a full, steep set of stairs or a back door with 6 steps, a landing, then another 6.
We don't want special access, just access.

So, I am just happy there ARE spaces on the boats. In the not too distant past, the only empty spaces were on the open space at the back of the boat - one space in the corner farthest from the door, which didn't interfere with guests getting on or off. But, getting there at the right time was still important; too full and it was impossible to get there (plus, you were out in whatever weather)
 
Hey Ray. Peg and I enjoyed running into you several times earlier this month. I think it was not only busier this month but there seems to also be a lot more people renting ECV's then there ever was in the past. That combination is going to slow everything down. And yes at least the weather was great if we needed to wait a little longer.
 

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