Blind man and service dog get removed from flight other passengers stand behind him

[disney david]

So us air ways decide that a blind man and his service dog had to get of a plane in Philly because after sitting on the Tarmac for a hour and half his dog got a little rest less. Us airways said he did not comply with crew members when they asked him to make the dog go by his feet so they returned to the gate and made him get off. But here where the store gets good all of the other passengers voiced their displeasure saying the man and his dog was not a problem so the captain came out and told them all to get all the plane and they had to take a bus back to ny. The other passenger could stayed quiet and not stood up for the man and his dog and let him be kicked off and just continued their flight back to ny but no they did the right thing and decided it was not right what happened. It great hearing that people stood up and not just stay quiet when a company/airline dose something wrong to a guest with disabilities.

Shame on you us air ways I guess they didn't learn their lesson when they received their fine may be they need another one.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20756284,00.html

 

[bookwormde]

I hope they filed a formal complaint with the FAA

 

[disney david]

I hope they filed a formal complaint with the FAA

I hope they do because the airlines response is almost as bad as what they did.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

I hope they filed a formal complaint with the FAA

I hope they do because the airlines response is almost as bad as what they did.

1) I think the airline was well within their rights and duties.
2) The dog "became restless".
. . . even if a aid dog, they must behave
. . . if they cannot behave, they need to be removed
. . . this can become a major safety issue
3) As for canceling the flight
. . . the captain has no idea how far the passengers could carry this
. . . it is the captains absolute responsibility to maintain order onboard
. . . and, no one can override the captain's decision(s)
4) I must assume there will be no official action against the airline or the piolot.
5) ADA allows "access", not misbehavior.

NOTE: After more than 3-million air miles, I have seen lots of problems and their
resolutions. As a passenger, I want a safe flight. If removing passengers is what
it takes, so be it.

 

[disney david]

1) I think the airline was well within their rights and duties.
2) The dog "became restless".
. . . even if a aid dog, they must behave
. . . if they cannot behave, they need to be removed
. . . this can become a major safety issue
3) As for canceling the flight
. . . the captain has no idea how far the passengers could carry this
. . . it is the captains absolute responsibility to maintain order onboard
. . . and, no one can override the captain's decision(s)

NOTE: After more than 3-million air miles, I have seen lots of issues and their
resolutions. As a passenger, I want a safe flight. If removing passengers is
what it takes, so be it.

They over stepped their bounds the other passengers didn't say he or the dog was a problem. You know of he or his dog was a problem the other passengers wouldn't of said anything and let it happen. Restless how was it barking trying to bite someone kids get rest less so should we say any kid that gets restles and te parent can't stop should be asked to leave. Te captain also step out if their bounds was the passenger throwing things no was they out of control no they voiced their concern the captain had no right to kick them or that passenger off the plane. The flight crew hid behind rules that was not their to remove passenger with disabilities. The pilot should be fired for what he did he just coast the airline more money then he make in one year know they look worse then they already do. So a blind person with a service dog is a threat or has nothing to do with keeping order it has to a ego thing. He and the flight attendent decide to pick this poor person to throw their weight around maybe they was board or maybe they know they out I a job anyway with the merger so why not go out with a bang.

So by your logic you be okay with them removing a parent and kid that has autism that got rest less on the plane.

 

[alizesmom]

I just wNt to know what "became restless" means. What did the dog do?

 

[disney david]

I just wNt to know what "became restless" means. What did the dog do?

Yes me to I don't see a trained seeing eye dog getting out hand that much.

 

[disney david]

Here more info on the story still dose not excuse way the flight attendants and the pilot did but still shows that the other passengers did all they could do to help.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/travel/blind-man-us-airways-incident/

 

[MarkF0wle]

When I read this article online it stated the dog started to wander around the plane, up & down the aisle & would not just stay by the owner's side.

I thought it seemed unnecessary but I keep in mind everybody was just trying to do what they thought was right. Difficult situation.

 

[disney david]

Another one saying all the dog did to get him kicked off was come out from under the seat and curl up under the mans feet. Sorry that dose not sound like enough to do what they did even though the airline to try and save face is saying the dog walked into the isle even if he did I still don't think that enough.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4275353

 

[disney david]

When I read this article online it stated the dog started to wander around the plane, up & down the aisle & would not just stay by the owner's side.

I thought it seemed unnecessary but I keep in mind everybody was just trying to do what they thought was right. Difficult situation.

Was that the CNN one it said he sat under the person to his left to maybe the other row. Then after a delay he moved to where his owner was sitting. I still think it should of been handled better. Yes the passengers did what was right and the airline did what was questionable and most likely not right.

 

[disney david]

Didn't the dog do what it trained to do to try to be next the owner at all times. Maybe the dog thought the owner need him after a two hour delay and it not a pet it a service dog doing what it trained to do.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . all the dog did to get him kicked off was come out from under the seat and curl up under the mans feet. . .

1) This is a true and gross safety hazard.
2) NOTHING can block the floor in the seat rows.
3) People inside or at the window may need to get out fast.
4) Luggage or a dig could prevent movement and trap the person inside the seat.
5) I have seen LOTS of people having to move luggage so it is not on the floor in front of seats.

 

[disney david]

1) This is a true and gross safety hazard.
2) NOTHING can block the floor in the seat rows.
3) People inside or at the window may need to get out fast.
4) Luggage or a dig could prevent movement and trap the person inside the seat.
5) I have seen LOTS of people having to move luggage so it is not on the floor in front of seats.

We not going to agree in this your find with them doing this to abound person and his dog which is fine I am not. You do realize in a car if a emergency the dog will have to go with the person He blind he need the dog to guide him out and I am sure he won't want to leave him behind. Luggage and a dog is different the dog alive the bag not if the dog I a carrier then yes it a safety hazard. Listen I not going to argue this we don't see eye to eye it not the end of the world they did what they thought was right I don't think it right I think they owe him a apology. And if he such a safety risk the. How come he could go on a bus for 3.5 hours. Plus you had 35 people after a two hour delay angry back the passenger and willing to get Ickes off when have you ever seen that. Most time they don't say anything and tape it but no they stayed in the plane for over two hours and then had to take a bus back to ny.

I got what I wanted out and we leave it at that thanks

 

[pugdog]

1) This is a true and gross safety hazard.
2) NOTHING can block the floor in the seat rows.
3) People inside or at the window may need to get out fast.
4) Luggage or a dig could prevent movement and trap the person inside the seat.
5) I have seen LOTS of people having to move luggage so it is not on the floor in front of seats.

Please read the Air Carriers Act. It totally allows a service dog to be on the floor by the owners feet. It is not allowed in a exit row or to spill out into the isle though.

 

[VroomFam]

Please read the Air Carriers Act. It totally allows a service dog to be on the floor by the owners feet. It is not allowed in a exit row or to spill out into the isle though.

Here are the rules:
1. Service animals are welcome on all our flights. There is no charge for trained service animals.
2. There is no limit to the number and type of service animals as long as they fit on your lap or in front of your seat. Aisles may not be obstructed.
3. An animal sitting on your lap must be no larger than an infant.
4. Additional restrictions apply on flights outside the continental United States.
5. If you'd like special seating, such as a bulkhead seat, call 800-428-4322 (TTY 800-245-2966) at least 24 hours before your flight. Because of safety regulations, if you're traveling with a service animal, you may not sit in an exit row.


Here is another person's post:
"ADA does not cover air travel or aircraft, it only covers the terminals and public areas of the airport. Under the Air Carrier Access Act, a Service Animal can be denied travel if it is aggressive, disruptive, agitated or otherwise presents a safety concern. Before removing a passenger and their Service Animal, the flight crew will discuss the situation with the company's resolution specialist who in consultation with the aircraft captain will make a determination.

Disability advocates caution disabled travelers to be aware of the aircraft type and take steps necessary to ensure their animal is comfortable on certain equipment, especially those that are prop driven and confined such as this flight.

The passenger did acknowledge that the Service Animal was getting agitated and not following his commands to remain still. He also admitted that he may have gotten a little vocal with the flight attendant. The flight attendant wanted the animal secured "at his feet" which is standard practice and a requirement of the FAA. Having an animal in the aisle during takeoff and landing is not permitted. There is some disagreement even among the passengers if the request was for the animal to be stowed "under the seat" or was it "secured at his feet". That will have to be determined after direct interviews with all involved.

A lengthy delay is going to irritate the animal especially if it’s not use to the Dash 8, heck humans can get irritated in that sardine can. It is likely that the animal and human (and other passengers) were just irritable due to all the conditions. Federal regulations are there for a reason and the denial of transit was established in coordination with disability advocates. If the conditions reached the level of a safety concern, disabled with a Service Animal or not, the flight crew has to consider the safety of the aircraft and passengers.

I am a very big Disability and Service Animal advocate from personal family experience; however, I also fully support the ACAA and its restrictions. Being disabled and having a Service Animal is not a license to not conform to airline safety regulations. "


I am not sure I would be able to take a side on this one. See my Lab below (Sarge). We have a large Guide Dogs for the Blind school here. But REMEMBER, a 5 oz liquid bottle won't go on a plane with you, and only recently was any electronic device use allowed most of the time. The safety of the crew and passengers is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than the comfort or "rights" of any individual, disabled or not, and we cannot know the entire situation. The owner didn't count on the delay, and neither did the crew. If the dog wouldn't settle down, AND the owner got testy, I kinda understand. Maybe they would have arranged another flight, or paid for a bus ride, I don't know. And we don't know the reason for the traveling. If there had been an issue in flight involving the dog, most of the people posting here would have been all over the airline for allowing that dog aboard.

But the dog looks like a sweetheart, like my big bubba:

 

[disney david]

Here are the rules:
1. Service animals are welcome on all our flights. There is no charge for trained service animals.
2. There is no limit to the number and type of service animals as long as they fit on your lap or in front of your seat. Aisles may not be obstructed.
3. An animal sitting on your lap must be no larger than an infant.
4. Additional restrictions apply on flights outside the continental United States.
5. If you'd like special seating, such as a bulkhead seat, call 800-428-4322 (TTY 800-245-2966) at least 24 hours before your flight. Because of safety regulations, if you're traveling with a service animal, you may not sit in an exit row.

Here is another person's post:
"ADA does not cover air travel or aircraft, it only covers the terminals and public areas of the airport. Under the Air Carrier Access Act, a Service Animal can be denied travel if it is aggressive, disruptive, agitated or otherwise presents a safety concern. Before removing a passenger and their Service Animal, the flight crew will discuss the situation with the company's resolution specialist who in consultation with the aircraft captain will make a determination.

Disability advocates caution disabled travelers to be aware of the aircraft type and take steps necessary to ensure their animal is comfortable on certain equipment, especially those that are prop driven and confined such as this flight.

The passenger did acknowledge that the Service Animal was getting agitated and not following his commands to remain still. He also admitted that he may have gotten a little vocal with the flight attendant. The flight attendant wanted the animal secured "at his feet" which is standard practice and a requirement of the FAA. Having an animal in the aisle during takeoff and landing is not permitted. There is some disagreement even among the passengers if the request was for the animal to be stowed "under the seat" or was it "secured at his feet". That will have to be determined after direct interviews with all involved.

A lengthy delay is going to irritate the animal especially if it’s not use to the Dash 8, heck humans can get irritated in that sardine can. It is likely that the animal and human (and other passengers) were just irritable due to all the conditions. Federal regulations are there for a reason and the denial of transit was established in coordination with disability advocates. If the conditions reached the level of a safety concern, disabled with a Service Animal or not, the flight crew has to consider the safety of the aircraft and passengers.

I am a very big Disability and Service Animal advocate from personal family experience; however, I also fully support the ACAA and its restrictions. Being disabled and having a Service Animal is not a license to not conform to airline safety regulations. "

I am not sure I would be able to take a side on this one. See my Lab below (Sarge). We have a large Guide Dogs for the Blind school here. But REMEMBER, a 5 oz liquid bottle won't go on a plane with you, and only recently was any electronic device use allowed most of the time. The safety of the crew and passengers is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than the comfort or "rights" of any individual, disabled or not, and we cannot know the entire situation. The owner didn't count on the delay, and neither did the crew. If the dog wouldn't settle down, AND the owner got testy, I kinda understand. Maybe they would have arranged another flight, or paid for a bus ride, I don't know. And we don't know the reason for the traveling. If there had been an issue in flight involving the dog, most of the people posting here would have been all over the airline for allowing that dog aboard.

But the dog looks like a sweetheart, like my big bubba:

Thanks for the explanation you made it more clear. What gets me is you had 35 other passengers who was most likely upset angry about the delay and I am sure they was not happy having to go back to the terminal. Stand up to the flight crew when has that ever happened when it come to removing a passenger. Most time their happy they removing a passenger so it has to say that the dog was not as bad as then flight crew said I believe the dog came out say under his feet. The flight attendant decide to go on a power trip and tell him to out his dog under the seat the guy yes got loud which I am sure since it was a us airways flight attendant said something she should of and since he didn't now down to her he gets kicked off the plane. If the dog was barking lying in the aisle waling the plane Aggressive to other passengers the. Yes he should be removed. but it dose jot sound like the dog was doing any if that except when he came out under the seat to go under the mans feet.

It hard I rather take the man and the 35 other passengers side then us airways which has a very bad history treating passengers with disabilities. So bad when they came out with the new rules they was mentioned in the articles for receiving a huge fine for how they treat Rhee passengers with disabilities.

 

[JLC44]

David, thanks for the CNN article it is the best I've read on this and provided some important details. The airline's first mistake was not moving him to a seat with his dog. If the dog did become agitated I lay that directly on the airline for separating it from its handler.


382.37 Seat Assignments
(c) If a service animal cannot be accommodated at the seat location of the qualified individual with a disability whom the animal is accompanying (see
§ 382.55(a)(2)), the carrier shall offer the passenger the opportunity to move with the animal to a seat location, if present on the aircraft, where the animal can be accommodated, as an alternative to requiring that the animal travel with checked baggage http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/382short.pdf


David the other passengers are not really a good gauge as to who was right in a case like this. If you saw earlier this year the veteran with PTSD that got removed from a US Air flight because he was yelling at the flight crew because they wouldn't allow the dog to sit in the seat next to him and required it to be on the floor. The passengers were on his side and he was absolutely wrong.

 

[disney david]

David, thanks for the CNN article it is the best I've read on this and provided some important details. The airline's first mistake was not moving him to a seat with his dog. If the dog did become agitated I lay that directly on the airline for separating it from its handler.

382.37 Seat Assignments
(c) If a service animal cannot be accommodated at the seat location of the qualified individual with a disability whom the animal is accompanying (see
§ 382.55(a)(2)), the carrier shall offer the passenger the opportunity to move with the animal to a seat location, if present on the aircraft, where the animal can be accommodated, as an alternative to requiring that the animal travel with checked baggage http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/382short.pdf

David the other passengers are not really a good gauge as to who was right in a case like this. If you saw earlier this year the veteran with PTSD that got removed from a US Air flight because he was yelling at the flight crew because they wouldn't allow the dog to sit in the seat next to him and required it to be on the floor. The passengers were on his side and he was absolutely wrong.

Yes your right I was just surprised they all stood behind him that it made me think the dog was not as bad as the flight crew made him out to be.

 

[disney david]

David, thanks for the CNN article it is the best I've read on this and provided some important details. The airline's first mistake was not moving him to a seat with his dog. If the dog did become agitated I lay that directly on the airline for separating it from its handler.

382.37 Seat Assignments
(c) If a service animal cannot be accommodated at the seat location of the qualified individual with a disability whom the animal is accompanying (see
§ 382.55(a)(2)), the carrier shall offer the passenger the opportunity to move with the animal to a seat location, if present on the aircraft, where the animal can be accommodated, as an alternative to requiring that the animal travel with checked baggage http://airconsumer.dot.gov/rules/382short.pdf

David the other passengers are not really a good gauge as to who was right in a case like this. If you saw earlier this year the veteran with PTSD that got removed from a US Air flight because he was yelling at the flight crew because they wouldn't allow the dog to sit in the seat next to him and required it to be on the floor. The passengers were on his side and he was absolutely wrong.

Here an updated CNN story that is airways is know looking into it more and they say why the did it was because the didn't feel safe with the dog and that they claim he was verbally abusive toward the the flight attnednet. Which was not right but he was upset how they handled it.

I think us airways can learn from this and hope fix it.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/travel/blind-man-us-airways-incident/?c=&page=2