Beware of DVC rental scammers

[arminnie]

Just because David's can only replace the cost and not the reservation doesn't mean they don't add value. With a private rental I think you're more at risk for losing the payment and the reservation.

When I first bought in, I used David's to rent my extra points. I was very happy with their service. I would use them again rather than rent out my points out privately. For me it's worth the reduced rent not to have to hassle with it.

I rented out a Christmas week reservation at BLT and a boatload of points for a GF rental via David's. I sent the forms back, both rentals took place practically within hours, and I had a chunk of money delivered to me via Paypal. I will get the remainder of the rental fees after the rental is completed. It was so easy. The staff at David's couldn't be better to work with.

 

[robinb]

When I first bought in, I used David's to rent my extra points. I was very happy with their service. I would use them again rather than rent out my points out privately. For me it's worth the reduced rent not to have to hassle with it.

I think that's great! Whatever works for you is fine For me, it's worth the extra money to rent my points out myself.

 

[CraigInPA]

I've done it both ways. It was certainly easier to rent my 320 point block through David's because he had customers lined up waiting for big blocks of points for 2BR villas. On the other hand, when I ended up with 65 points I wasn't going to use, I had to rent those directly (David's requires a 100 point minimum). It took about 10 days here on disboards, and looking up a half dozen prospective renter's requests, but I did rent them at a rate per point higher than what I got from David's.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Just because David's can only replace the cost and not the reservation doesn't mean they don't add value. With a private rental I think you're more at risk for losing the payment and the reservation.

When I first bought in, I used David's to rent my extra points. I was very happy with their service. I would use them again rather than rent out my points out privately. For me it's worth the reduced rent not to have to hassle with it.

The point I was making was not about if David's offers any value or not but to be clear that even using a broker there is not absolute guarantee of things not going wrong.

 

[crisi]

The point I was making was not about if David's offers any value or not but to be clear that even using a broker there is not absolute guarantee of things not going wrong.

No, but even through Disney there is no guarantee of things not going wrong. Disney could have a fire in the hotel you booked and end up with too many people in too many rooms - you'd be offered the opportunity to have your money refunded or stay at a different resort.

There is inherently more risk to a DVC rental - but there is far more risk with a private booking (you could lose your reservation AND your money) than with one through a broker (you could loose your reservation and have to book a cash room with your money - probably downgrading the resort to stay in budget).

Likewise, for the owner, there is more risk with a private rental - if you borrow points and never receive payment. If you get half up front and the other half never arrives - but you buy excuses until its too late to do anything but have holding points.

 

[ReagentGrade]

I think that's great! Whatever works for you is fine For me, it's worth the extra money to rent my points out myself.

If you're renting points regularly and have the time and energy to do it privately, it's makes perfect sense to maximize your income.

I got $14 a point, if you got $16/pt, you made about 15% more than I did. And the person who rented from you would have saved $1/pt if it was a 7-11 month rental at a resort with a premium. Win and Win. You go for the gold, I'm happy with the silver.

 

[minorthr]

I rented out a Christmas week reservation at BLT and a boatload of points for a GF rental via David's. I sent the forms back, both rentals took place practically within hours, and I had a chunk of money delivered to me via Paypal. I will get the remainder of the rental fees after the rental is completed. It was so easy. The staff at David's couldn't be better to work with.

Same here I listed with them for CCV and literally within 30 minutes they were gone. Had the bulk of the money the next day.

 

[robinb]

If you're renting points regularly and have the time and energy to do it privately, it's makes perfect sense to maximize your income.

I got $14 a point, if you got $16/pt, you made about 15% more than I did. And the person who rented from you would have saved $1/pt if it was a 7-11 month rental at a resort with a premium. Win and Win. You go for the gold, I'm happy with the silver.

I just calculated that I made $192 more over 2 reservations that I would have selling at $14 (1 @$16 and 1 @17). Plus, the points that I rented were less than the 100 point minimum. I understand that renting through David is easy, but it's not a whole lot harder to do it on your own and I have a dinner at California Grill to show for it.

 

[crisi]

I just calculated that I made $192 more over 2 reservations that I would have selling at $14 (1 @$16 and 1 @17). Plus, the points that I rented were less than the 100 point minimum. I understand that renting through David is easy, but it's not a whole lot harder to do it on your own and I have a dinner at California Grill to show for it.

That gets to what your time is worth to you. There is an economic concept that at some point your own time is worth more than money for most people. But you have to have a cushion of money to get there. For me there is no way $200 is worth the headaches of two private rentals, you'd have to hit more like $500 for me to be tempted. For other people, that number might be much much lower than yours.

 

[robinb]

That gets to what your time is worth to you. There is an economic concept that at some point your own time is worth more than money for most people. But you have to have a cushion of money to get there. For me there is no way $200 is worth the headaches of two private rentals, you'd have to hit more like $500 for me to be tempted. For other people, that number might be much much lower than yours.

Headache? Nope. No headache.

Both rentals were for existing reservations rented on another website. For each reservation I spent maybe 10 minutes making the initial reservation and then calling back to update it with the renter's information, 5 minutes to put up the advertisement, 15 minutes to communicate with the renters, 30 minutes to take my contract template and modify it for the reservation and renter and send it to them, 5 minutes to log into my online banking and deposit their check. So ... maybe 65 minutes total per reservation spread over a few days.

Plus, it's not like you don't spend time if you go through a DVC broker. You would have to spend some time reading and signing the contract with them, monitoring your email waiting for them to contract you with a sale, having to stop what you're doing to make the reservation before it poofs, forwarding all the info back to the broker. My guess would be that's at least 30 minutes of your time.

So ... my 2 reservations took about 2 hours and 10 minutes and 2 reservations with a broker would take at least 1 hour. The difference in time is 70 minutes and for that I made $192 more. I'll take $165 per hour for my time.

 

[crisi]

My reservation with a broker took 15 minutes total. The contracts were a snap (I've been doing contracts for a long time), I grabbed an email when I felt like making a reservation, made the reservation, and sent the screenshot. Plus, from the point I sent the screenshot, I never had to worry about contact with my renter (unless they wanted the dining plan or magical express - those were my only contractual obligations - and those needed to go through the broker). Half the money arrived 48 hours later, half arrived when they checked in, and I didn't spend eleven months wondering if I'd get paid in the end or if they'd cancel and I'd get stuck with half my money. I didn't worry about stray room changes ending up on my DVC account, or damage to the room, or a request to upgrade costing me points - all that became the brokers problem if it occurred. Or a renter wanting an extra night, that I borrowed points for and waitlisted, that then came through but it turns out they didn't want. And those are the headaches.

 

[ReagentGrade]

My reservation with a broker took 15 minutes total. The contracts were a snap (I've been doing contracts for a long time), I grabbed an email when I felt like making a reservation, made the reservation, and sent the screenshot. Plus, from the point I sent the screenshot, I never had to worry about contact with my renter (unless they wanted the dining plan or magical express - those were my only contractual obligations - and those needed to go through the broker). Half the money arrived 48 hours later, half arrived when they checked in, and I didn't spend eleven months wondering if I'd get paid in the end or if they'd cancel and I'd get stuck with half my money. I didn't worry about stray room changes ending up on my DVC account, or damage to the room, or a request to upgrade costing me points - all that became the brokers problem if it occurred. Or a renter wanting an extra night, that I borrowed points for and waitlisted, that then came through but it turns out they didn't want. And those are the headaches.

My experience was much the same. I used David's and the renter paid the full fee in advance, nonrefundable. I got 70% immediately with the balance on move in (about five weeks from now).

I have a Feb UY. I had bought a semi loaded contract only a month earlier. As a noobee, I didn't realize the risks of using a bunch of banked points to make a late Jan reservation. With my lack of knowledge, a private rental without a full payment would have put me in a big jam if the renter backed out at the last minute.

With David's it's all good! When I listed with them, I told them I'd list with someone else if they hadn't rented the points within 30 days. It took them two days to rent all my banked points (and a few borrowed) points in a single transaction.

This lowered my buy-in cost by $5 a point.

 

[crisi]

My experience was much the same. I used David's and the renter paid the full fee in advance, nonrefundable. I got 70% immediately with the balance on move in (about five weeks from now).

I have a Feb UY. I had bought a semi loaded contract only a month earlier. As a noobee, I didn't realize the risks of using a bunch of banked points to make a late Jan reservation. With my lack of knowledge, a private rental without a full payment would have put me in a big jam if the renter backed out at the last minute.

With David's it's all good! When I listed with them, I told them I'd list with someone else if they hadn't rented the points within 30 days. It took them two days to rent all my banked points (and a few borrowed) points in a single transaction.

This lowered my buy-in cost by $5 a point.

And you can, should you decide to do it yourself in the future, make your own terms. You can demand payment in full within 48 hours of making the reservation, with a deposit before the reservation is even made. You can (now that you own the points) plan ahead to rent so that you don't hit the end of your use year with the reservation. You can make your terms non-refundable. It is a good idea to learn the pitfalls of the system first - I think most DVC rental disappointments aren't scams, but situations where neither the renter or the owner really understand the system well enough.

But if you rent on your own you'll be the one explaining all of that to the people who want to rent your points, who sometimes see working with a private owner as an opportunity to bargain or get better terms than they'd get through a broker. You'll be the one explaining that you aren't going to get them a BWV standard view room for F&W or that they can't move their reservation a week because the kid suddenly has a soccer tournament. If they decide to get the dining plan at the last minute, and you are sitting in a work conference putting in 16 hour days and aren't responsive on your personal email, its your fault. If you don't enjoy saying no and avoid conflict - putting all of that on the broker can be worth quite a bit of money.

Now, those things don't always happen, there are plenty of people who rent who are really low maintenance, but I really don't want to deal with even the potential of any of that. And that's what I mean about headaches. A few hundred dollars isn't worth it to me. In fact, if it weren't for brokers willing to take that on, I'd give points to friends or sell my contract rather than diving into the private rental market and risking a renter who creates stress in my life.

 

[arminnie]

What I loved about dealing with David’s was that I did not have to TALK to another person. Not once.

I sent my form to rent points to David’s online. Emailed back their agreement. Got a request a couple of hours later. Made the reservation online. Sent the confirmation. And got my money.

 

[Dean]

Because David's is just a broker there still is the risk of the owner cancelling the room. You have the protection of a refund but no absolute guarantee of a room since the room is not in their control.

Just because David's can only replace the cost and not the reservation doesn't mean they don't add value. With a private rental I think you're more at risk for losing the payment and the reservation.

When I first bought in, I used David's to rent my extra points. I was very happy with their service. I would use them again rather than rent out my points out privately. For me it's worth the reduced rent not to have to hassle with it.

The risks are different with a broker, some are less and some are more. A private rental is likely to be more flexible than is a broker.

That gets to what your time is worth to you. There is an economic concept that at some point your own time is worth more than money for most people. But you have to have a cushion of money to get there. For me there is no way $200 is worth the headaches of two private rentals, you'd have to hit more like $500 for me to be tempted. For other people, that number might be much much lower than yours.

To me it'd be more work to use a broker but I position myself well with rentals and basically all rentals I do for DVC are to those I've dealt with in the past.

 

[Fishercat]

I recently entered into an agreement to rent points from an individual who I found on the Rent/Trade forum here on Disboards in Aug for a June 2018 trip. I'm not going to say the owners board name, as I'm not sure if that's allowed or not, but you could go back in my profile and see my last postings. I was in charge of booking for my family and another. Communication seemed very normal initially. The owner seemed very well informed, courteous, and knowledgeable. I paid the DVC owner half down and received an email that appeared like a normal Disney trip confirmation email, however the email did not contain a confirmation number. I inquired about the need of a confirmation number in early Sept so I could book my ADRs when my 180 hit, which is this weekend. She informed me that she would get the number asap and send it to me. That was in early Sept. I have been unable to reach the owner since then by all methods of communication that was provided to me. I am at a loss on what other recourse I would have. I am sick and embarrassed over this but understand that it was my mistake. Just be sure you have a solid DVC owner with multiple, tested communication routes available before agreeing to rent from someone. I've read accounts of this from others and never dreamed that it would occur to me.

I agree 100% about the multiple means and avenues of communication. I presently have someone using my name and a similar sounding e-mail address (Gray instead of Gary in the title) soliciting renters who are posting their e-maill addresses looking to rent or have points transferred. He has one of my member numbers (which in looking back over my emails, I gave him) so he can call Disney and get a partial recognition of my ownership. BEWARE...this guy is slick, uses his girfriends Pay Pal account for the transaction under Friends and Family (no dispute challenge) Some Alerts: His address does not coorespond to the property transfer address contained at the Orange County Comptrollers office. The address he gives is a vacant lot somewhere. He offers to transfer points at any Home Resort but only has a member number for one. His references are questionable. The phone number that he has used has been consistant over the last three scams that I know of. (240-416-9693)[ The points are always offered at a bargain...$4.00 or so the going rate. I have been contacted by four people already who have been approched by this guy claiming that he is me. If I can help anyone out who is questioning a legitamate rental, let me know.

 

[Kerchak]

OP - I hope you managed to resolve your issue.

If not, and your payment was made by credit card, don’t forget that you have the right to raise a dispute with your card issuer for non fulfilment. Even if you used PayPal, and your account was funded by credit card you can still dispute the transaction.

 

[shaunacb]

Well, that's disappointing. I think this is probably only the 3rd DVC scam I've read about on the DIS and I've been here since 1999. No wonder the scammer said, "I accept PayPal only as I find personal checks unsafe for both parties." because his/her REAL name was not the one that would be on a check! OP, I am very sorry you were taken.

FWIW, nothing about the scammer would have raised red flags for me. Being a member of the DIS for 8 months with nearly 200 posts would have been enough for me, plus finding her "name" in the OCC. The only thing that might have made me think twice was that her posts often had a nasty edge to them.

Another red flag... the OP write she has 460 points for rent as of 1/1/2018... but there is no January UY! Renters may not pick up on this but seasoned Dis DVC owners would. So disheartening that this happened to you!

 

[paults]

I do my own rentals and have 4 renters who have been using me for 3 years now. what luck I had with finding good renters.

 

[WALTSAGOD]

Update from the OP?