Are there any new statistics available on how RIV is selling?

AdamsMum

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
I haven't seen any stats on how RIV sold in July/August (direct I mean). Is it selling well? I know we saw the first resale at around $100 pp, but I have to think that was an extreme case of "What have I done?", and then have to get out of this. Does anyone have any statistics to compare to how other resorts sold in their new period?
 
Thanks for posting this link! So by the looks of it RIV is going to open with a massive amount of points still available for purchase. I’m sure we will see an uptick once guests can see the resort in person...? At what point do we determine that the there is a massive cost/value disconnect with this property?
 
On one side the sales numbers seem in line with how previous resorts sold. On the other we've seen a couple of changes (incentives on fixed weeks and minimum purchase to get the perks increase) that might let us think they're not happy with the sales.
I think DVC had great expectations on Riviera (being sold as an Epcot resort, having a nice finish in the rooms) and those expectations are not being met. When the resort will open and the Skyline proves a success I think we might see an increase in sales, regardless of the restrictions.
 


Valid. I just think a lot of people are having the same conclusion regarding the RIV: it’s a deluxe style hotel with a moderate style location. Also, the restrictions on resale drastically reduce your future flexibility on the contract. I personally think that Disney should have sold at two price points: one option with resale restrictions and one higher price/pt option with no restrictions.
 
Thanks for posting this link! So by the looks of it RIV is going to open with a massive amount of points still available for purchase. I’m sure we will see an uptick once guests can see the resort in person...? At what point do we determine that the there is a massive cost/value disconnect with this property?
Thank you for this. Not for nothing, but I've been saying that there is a disconnect with DVC in general for years. There is no reason on Earth why VGF should open at $145 per point and RIV should open at $188. There's nothing to justify that other than the fact that they feel they can charge more and more and more. The numbers do not make any sense and they haven't for awhile. When a critical mass of people start to recognize that, there's going to be trouble.

That said...I'm kidding myself if I think that will ever happen. Disney's Riviera Resort will open with all its bells and whistles and skyliners on December 16 with a TON of points that have been declared but not sold. That means cash bookings. That means a captive audience who will be smack dab in all that magical goodness. DVC will get their sales.
 


Disney's fiscal year ends September 30. IMO, the extra incentives are just to boost their numbers so the annual reports look even better. I sincerely doubt there are any serious worries about Riviera sales.
 
With every new resort, there is constant chatter that it isn't selling as well as (someone at) Disney expected. Yet, they continue to build and sell new resorts, more or less at the same pace of sales.

I guess they aren't that upset about it...
Good point. Although the fact that CCV and Aulani still have primary offerings shows that the pace of sales on DVC contracts and slowed compared to previous sales.

When I toured RIV my takeaway was that it’s an above average resort with below average location and amenities. I have a feeling a lot of other guests are walking away with the same feelings. At a price point of $188/point I’d expect to be blown away by the offerings and I was far from it.
 
Disney's fiscal year ends September 30. IMO, the extra incentives are just to boost their numbers so the annual reports look even better. I sincerely doubt there are any serious worries about Riviera sales.
Agreed. I think they are just now getting around to being worried about AUL sales. ;)
 
the fact that CCV and Aulani still have primary offerings shows that the pace of sales on DVC contracts and slowed compared to previous sales.
I guess. But, the year-over-year numbers consistently have been up this year based on what DVC News reports (though Will didn't explicitly compare '19 Jan/Feb to '18 Jan/Feb). That doesn't include AUL, but that's its own thing with its own problems and I think most people here ignore it because it is not inside the bubble.

Granted, those are point volumes, not dollars, so there's a bit of wiggle room there.
 
Disney's fiscal year ends September 30. IMO, the extra incentives are just to boost their numbers so the annual reports look even better. I sincerely doubt there are any serious worries about Riviera sales.

Maybe, if they had marketed it. Other than one snippet of info on the discounted fixed weeks from a non-Disney source I could find nothing on it. And the increase from 75 to 100 points was another opportunity to get a huge rush but again no marketing on it other than the info from a guide or two that got out and then they seemed to be hushed on it until DVC changed the fine print on the website. This management seems so fixated on killing resale interest to the point of doing some contractually questionable changes and then misses such easy sales marketing opportunities. Perhaps a little less cost on legal and little more on marketing.
 
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I think sales might not get better if there are a few more resale contracts that sell for approx. half of the purchase price. In the world of smart phones, if articles about how low the resale of RIV cover the first page of google, they could even have problems with general public. As much as I think RIV is going to be cool, the resale restrictions (Future value) was a deal killer from the start.
 
I think sales might not get better if there are a few more resale contracts that sell for approx. half of the purchase price. In the world of smart phones, if articles about how low the resale of RIV cover the first page of google, they could even have problems with general public. As much as I think RIV is going to be cool, the resale restrictions (Future value) was a deal killer from the start.
I think you are overestimating the impact. While you and I see it this way, we here on the DIS are a scrutinous and enlightened bunch. The majority of the general public doesn't even know about resale and a larger percentage of those that do think it's tainted. I think if they do catch wind of a deflated resale price it will only confirm these beliefs - not make them actually think about the immediate depreciation of their soon-to-be ownership interest.
 
The more I think about the restrictions, the more I think it doesn't matter much to Disney - at least not yet. This has probably all been said before by others so thanks in advance for indulging.

The restrictions as they exist provide a much clearer decision between the resale product and the direct product and helps justify why Disney charges any amount of a premium over resale. Unless direct sales very definitively crater, Disney has no incentive to keep the resale price high. In fact it helps them out with ROFR once the resort does sell out because they can buy low, magically add their "benefits" back to those points, and sell them a second time at a much larger margin than with the prior 14 resorts. It also helps direct sales reps be able to more concretely/authoritatively demean or dismiss the option of resale at all to any prospects who ask about it. Others have pointed out that breakage could be an issue for resale owners as well if they have to cancel outside the banking window. That heightened risk, too, is a feature for Disney to discourage people from going with resale (and also a win for Disney overall because points unused are more profitable points, presumably).

This may cause residual higher resale demand for the legacy 14 resorts, but as the first of those start to expire in just 20-something years (which isn't an absurd amount of time) the resale proposition of *those* resorts goes down as well as less resorts are available to trade into other than your home resort.

The only way the restrictions policy doesn't work out for Disney overall is if most DVC direct purchasers are already aware of the option to sell later and proactively factor that in to their decision to purchase DVC, causing them not to buy the new resorts at all. A slight/non-overwhelming slowdown in Riviera sales may not matter much if cash demand for the resort stays high over time s/t they can keep occupancy up overall.

Imagine a world where every DVC resort's rules were like Riviera's. You buy direct if you want to stay at any/every property, if you want to maintain maximum flexibility in vacation planning, you find value in the other membership perks (whatever they may be), and you want the status of a luxury purchase. You buy resale if you can be disciplined enough (and maybe lucky enough) to commit to your vacation plans a year ahead of time, absolutely love staying at a single resort, and can make the financial numbers work where you're likely in the medium or long term to be coming out ahead financially instead of paying cash. They become two very differentiated products - the resale product that most folks on this board know and many of us have convinced ourselves has value has a remaining lifespan of < 20 years, it seems.

(caveat that all this pseduo-intellectual analysis may have major flaws, but it feels truthy to me)
 
Thanks for posting this link! So by the looks of it RIV is going to open with a massive amount of points still available for purchase. I’m sure we will see an uptick once guests can see the resort in person...? At what point do we determine that the there is a massive cost/value disconnect with this property?
Every resort opens with a massive amount of points still left for purchase. I am sure SSR had over 10 million points left for purchase when it opened.

Due to various time share scandals in the past, there are restrictions on when a resort can be sold, and it has to be pretty close to completion
 
Disney's fiscal year ends September 30. IMO, the extra incentives are just to boost their numbers so the annual reports look even better. I sincerely doubt there are any serious worries about Riviera sales.
In fiscal 2018 Disney reported revenues of about 60 billion dollars. A little bump in sales from incentives is a pimple on Dumbo's rear. IF it were to create a 100,000 point increase in sales, revenue would go up by 17-18 mil - thats not even enough to up the revenue in the first decimal place.
 
In fiscal 2018 Disney reported revenues of about 60 billion dollars. A little bump in sales from incentives is a pimple on Dumbo's rear. IF it were to create a 100,000 point increase in sales, revenue would go up by 17-18 mil - thats not even enough to up the revenue in the first decimal place.

I agree with your assessment as far as The Disney Co. as a whole is concerned. However, maybe somewhere a few rungs down the ladder from the Iger level, there is a DVC manager where $17M would be the difference between a bonus or not.
 
In fiscal 2018 Disney reported revenues of about 60 billion dollars. A little bump in sales from incentives is a pimple on Dumbo's rear. IF it were to create a 100,000 point increase in sales, revenue would go up by 17-18 mil - thats not even enough to up the revenue in the first decimal place.
I agree with your assessment as far as The Disney Co. as a whole is concerned. However, maybe somewhere a few rungs down the ladder from the Iger level, there is a DVC manager where $17M would be the difference between a bonus or not.
Exactly. It doesn't matter how the company is doing as a whole, if your division is not pulling its weight you're in trouble. Just ask Catherine Powell.
 

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