Anyone see this as interesting or is it just me

WDW_Ding

Ohana means family.
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
And who do you think “some random small business owner” might be getting their advice from? The same type of individuals who are directing Disney in a safe way of opening up and managing the flow of people thru their resorts and parks, maybe?
Do you think the average small business owner has the same access to medical professionals that Disney does?

Do you really think that “some random small business owner” is just throwing open their doors with no thought as to how to deal with this pandemic. Do you really think they are just damn stupid?
I am repeating myself...

I realize that *some* people might be able to self-police their own businesses, but the government would be taking a huge gamble. If you don't self-police properly, people inside your shop get sick, then go elsewhere and get other people sick. Now, multiply this by every business in town. Also, as a business owner, what are you going to do if someone refuses to socially distance or wear a mask? Are you going to physically fight them? You could call the police, but how long before they get there?
To add to that, many small business owners may have good intentions, but make mistakes or overlook things or cannot enforce their own rules because some people just don't like to be told what to do, even if it is for everyone else's benefit.


Don’t you dare judge me! You know nothing of my business, my educational background or how much I know about infectious diseases but I would bet money that I know a hell of a lot more than you!
I never, even once, commented regarding your educational background or your business. But I am VERY interested in hearing about your qualifications as they relate to infectious disease. Please, do share.
 

disneyland_is_magic

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Do you think the average small business owner has the same access to medical professionals that Disney does?
Is that why there are reports the Wonder has 200 Covid cases in crew members? Was it all that helpful advice they had the extra advantage of having?
Or Is Disney figuring it out and doing their best like every other business?
 


WDW_Ding

Ohana means family.
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Is that why there are reports the Wonder has 200 Covid cases in crew members? Was it all that helpful advice they had the extra advantage of having?
Or Is Disney figuring it out and doing their best like every other business?
You made my point for me.

If even DISNEY cannot get it right, then how can we expect small business owners to get it right?
 
  • RivShore

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 27, 2019
    If Covid death rates may be getting over counted, how does the jump in overall death rates vs prior years get explained? If anything, it looks like deaths are being under-counted:

    View attachment 496051
    More data that suggests a 25% under-count of Covid deaths in NJ:

     

    jbehr12

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 18, 2018
    There are not two sides to COVID. It kills people and there is no treatment. What is "the other side" about that?
    There is without a doubt two sides, just because one doesn’t fit your personal narrative doesn’t mean it’s not there. It’s why I stopped watching CNN a month ago.
     
  • GAN

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 18, 2005
    I just got my hair cut at a great clips and I’m covid free. It was bound to happen at some hair salon across the country, it’s just sensationalized to scare you all about reopening. It’s like when the news covers a plane crash, it seems like a major thing but it just seems that way because of how much hype is put into it.
    Huh?? A plane crash isn't a major thing? Only because it's hyped it's major? Not sure how that can be hyped. Plane crashes, and people die ...that's usually how they're reported. I don't think I've ever seen one portrayed any other way. Is there a better way to report it?
     

    WDW_Ding

    Ohana means family.
    Joined
    Jan 11, 2018
    There is without a doubt two sides, just because one doesn’t fit your personal narrative doesn’t mean it’s not there. It’s why I stopped watching CNN a month ago.
    What are the two sides then?

    I just got my hair cut at a great clips and I’m covid free. It was bound to happen at some hair salon across the country, it’s just sensationalized to scare you all about reopening. It’s like when the news covers a plane crash, it seems like a major thing but it just seems that way because of how much hype is put into it.
    Which part is more overhyped: the fact that at least 100,000 Americans have died from COVID since March or the the fact that about 350,000 people worldwide have died from COVID this year?
     

    jbehr12

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 18, 2018
    What are the two sides then?



    Which part is more overhyped: the fact that at least 100,000 Americans have died from COVID since March or the the fact that about 350,000 people worldwide have died from COVID this year?
    I can tell by your post it doesn’t matter what I say, you’re right and I’m wrong. I’m not going to start a debate on that foot.
     
  • GeneralTso

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 28, 2009
    For the love of churros.
    No place else to fight about Covid than a Disney message board?

    Shut this thread down. It's boring and not helpful or uplifting.
     

    Jtinsc

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Oct 28, 2016
    I hate that phrase. Somebody please bury it!

    Are you collecting a paycheck? Do you own a business that has been locked down for over two months? When was the last time you got together with friends and family members? Did a loved one die but you couldn’t hold a proper funeral? This isn’t normal and no one will ever convince me that it is.
    I had a customer use "the new normal" to me the other day and I nearly jumped down the poor guys throat. It's such a defeatist phrase and considering what we do know about this virus I think unwarranted in it's use at this point. Just my opinion.
     

    jbehr12

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 18, 2018
    Cool. Engage in an argument, make an accusation (and toss in CNN for some reason) and dip out.
    Okay, then let’s go.

    If you are going to sit there and say Covid only has one side, and those are the deaths, then you’re either blatantly ignoring the collateral damage or in a position where you are financially secure enough to either be able to work from home or not have to work at all so you’re not financially impacted. If that’s you, then good for you but you’re not the only person on the planet.

    It’s causing the rest of the country that isn’t California or New York City (where it’s understandably more dire) to idly sit by trying to figure out how to make ends meet when most states unemployment benefits that are there to protect people are extremely broken, and governors keep extending these orders like it’s a carrot on an endless fishing line while at the same time not lifting a finger to try and fix their broken systems to support their hurting population.

    And I mentioned CNN because if you follow multiple news sources, as any free thinking American that understands how these news companies are structured should be, you would see a clear narrative of fear that completely ignores the much greater number of Americans who’s lives are going to be impacted long term even though they live in a county that had under ten covid cases. So to say covid is only one side literally dismisses the troubles that the vast majority of people impacted by this are actually dealing with.

    And while I’m at it, if you look at the numbers of cases and deaths yes they are real and a large number but if you look at them side by side with the number of people who lost their jobs, their livelihoods, their income, and their futures the infection is a drop in the bucket of the overall damage the political side of this is causing.

    Speaking of the political side, I also mentioned CNN because there are clear political narratives on that particular news channel, just as there are with Fox and NYT and if you have been following it closely since March it clearly lays a narrative of supporting Cuomo and other democrats who are continually extending their stay at home orders with new rules every day and changing by the week. Whitmer in Michigan is literally acting like she has dictatorship over the state, saying that she will continue to extend orders if people don’t listen and uses a covid resurgence as a thinly veiled excuse. Want to have a party in a state that has relaxed its guidelines? Better hope CNN doesn’t get wind of it or they will make you a headline and demonize the heck out of you.

    And masks? Don’t even get me started, it’s literally just turned into a way to divide people. I have multiple family members in the health sector and every single one of them agree masks are a joke. Once again, just another way to divide us politically. I could literally rubber band cheese cloth to my face and it would be just as effective on microscopic pathogens as 90% of the masks the public wears.

    Theres also the hugely botched infection numbers that led to the shut down to begin with, but where is Fauci now? His numbers were just wrong, and so were multiple ‘experts’ numbers and now that none of that fear mongering has come true to the extent they said it was going to, they’ve cut him from the media. He even recently said that we couldn’t be in extended shut down forever, but certain news outlets didn’t report on it even though they were Fauci fanboys just two weeks ago, because his newest quotes don’t fit their narrative of fear.


    There is my rebuttal, and I’m happy to keep going if anyone wants to continue to call me out, now let’s hear yours. Don’t be a hypocrite and “dip out” on me here. I was attempting to be civil.
     
    Last edited:

    YesterDark

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 4, 2017
    1) COVID with only one side. I guess you're splitting hairs here, but yes there are many factors in COVID from the death, to the economy, to the lasting effects and damage of the body to the survivors. I don't thing the person who said "two sides" was ignoring that fact. I believe it was more referencing people who like to say COVID is a hoax. But whatever, if that is your take your both correct. I don't see how this is confrontational.

    2) The rest of the country except NY and CA? There is a reason why the Governors closed down states, and it's not the federal government. This disease is beginning to impact places in the southeast and midwest it bigger ways and it's going to get worse in the next few weeks as it's already doing so in GA and AL. COVID-19 is extremely transmissible in closed environments. All it takes is going to church with one person who has it, one flight, one traveler staying locally and going to bar for it to spread throughout the community. It's incredibly dangerous.

    Look at the Native American reservations in the southwest, which has been reported nearly on every news platform, they are incredibly devastated.

    3) CNN routinely reports on the devastating economic impact that this pandemic is going to cause. I won't go in to what news sources people use, because I assume people get sensitive about being labelled something because of what they watch. Again "the one side" comment is mostly aimed at two end of the extremes. "Everything is fine" and "This is really bad". I think you and the person who said that originally can agree to that.

    4) If we didn't socially distances and shut down places, the 100,000 dead people would have been 10x+ because of overwhelmed health services and people dying at home. I don't know how many dead people are worth how many jobs. Is 1000 people worth 10,000 jobs? We went to war for over a decade because someone killed several thousand people on 9/11. How many deaths is worth a job?

    5) I'm not sure you know how bad it was in NY/NYC and in NJ. These governors acted (mostly too late if you ask me) in the best interest in their states and saved lives and helped steer the area out of this mess. I'm from NJ by the way. No one here perceives this as dictatorship. These stay at home orders are NECESSARY. CNN was "supporting" (weird word) Cuomo because he was leading a state hardest hit in the country and was contrasting his news conferences to our President who was telling people to inject cleaner in to their bodies.

    6) "The mask debate" is only dividing stupid people and not stupid people. And yes you can rubber band cloth to your face. That is what the CDC and other doctors are asking you to do. Before I had a mask, that's what I did (I used rubber bands just like the US Surgeon General did in a youtube video). Do we really need to review why we wear masks? It drastically decreases the chances of spreading the virus. No one is saying it prevents it or makes you 100% safe. The only people who thinks it's political are people huffing on some perverse sense of American Freedom.

    And by the way, I'm not calling you stupid unless you think it's ok to go out in public without a mask right now. If you are, you're being stupid. I don't know who your family members are but... maybe the are misinformed and I'll leave it at that.

    7) Hugely botched infection numbers. I don't want to accuse anyone of being crazy, but is there some conspiracy theory you're buying in to? I don't understand what you're saying with this. People's modeling was wrong because Americans, by and large, stayed home and "bent the curve" so the models are being corrected. Modeling and predictions are only as accurate as the data provided them. With the rate of infections and deaths with a virus that is R1.5 to 3.0, modelling was scary if we didn't do anything. If that happened deaths and illness would have been even worse. But most Americans were sensible and stayed home. Modeling and trends are updated as more data is fed in to them.

    That's how modeling works.

    Fouci isn't hiding. He just did a townhall segment on CNN last week (thursday I think?). He publicly testified before congress 10 days ago. I mean you going after Fouci is just weird. That man's only agenda is keeping Americans healthy. He has decades upon decades of a public track record to back that up. I've seen plenty of news outlets talking about how we can't stay home forever, I've heard Fouci say that in multiple places and multiple times over the last few weeks. I've seen him talking about going out, enjoying the holiday weekend but wear a mask and stay 6 feet apart.

    Go watch the Governor of North Dakota the other day talking about masks if need a political contrast of R vs. D. News flash, they both say wear a mask.

    It just seems like you're trying to build a narrative here for some reason. If you want to point your finger at me saying I'm doing it as well, fine, but here is my agenda:

    1) Keep Americans out of the hospital.
    2) Wear a mask
    3) Practice social distancing
    4) Don't open the economy too soon. Opening it too fast will force us not to open it up more in the long term.
    5) Don't drink weird chemicals.

    With all the "opening" we're seeing in some places, just watch the news around father's day (2-3 weeks from now) you may see a spike in cases because of this weekend. Hopefully everyone is staying safe out there.

    Love you all, red or blue, farmers or city slickers alike.
     

    GAN

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 18, 2005
    1) COVID with only one side. I guess you're splitting hairs here, but yes there are many factors in COVID from the death, to the economy, to the lasting effects and damage of the body to the survivors. I don't thing the person who said "two sides" was ignoring that fact. I believe it was more referencing people who like to say COVID is a hoax. But whatever, if that is your take your both correct. I don't see how this is confrontational.

    2) The rest of the country except NY and CA? There is a reason why the Governors closed down states, and it's not the federal government. This disease is beginning to impact places in the southeast and midwest it bigger ways and it's going to get worse in the next few weeks as it's already doing so in GA and AL. COVID-19 is extremely transmissible in closed environments. All it takes is going to church with one person who has it, one flight, one traveler staying locally and going to bar for it to spread throughout the community. It's incredibly dangerous.

    Look at the Native American reservations in the southwest, which has been reported nearly on every news platform, they are incredibly devastated.

    3) CNN routinely reports on the devastating economic impact that this pandemic is going to cause. I won't go in to what news sources people use, because I assume people get sensitive about being labelled something because of what they watch. Again "the one side" comment is mostly aimed at two end of the extremes. "Everything is fine" and "This is really bad". I think you and the person who said that originally can agree to that.

    4) If we didn't socially distances and shut down places, the 100,000 dead people would have been 10x+ because of overwhelmed health services and people dying at home. I don't know how many dead people are worth how many jobs. Is 1000 people worth 10,000 jobs? We went to war for over a decade because someone killed several thousand people on 9/11. How many deaths is worth a job?

    5) I'm not sure you know how bad it was in NY/NYC and in NJ. These governors acted (mostly too late if you ask me) in the best interest in their states and saved lives and helped steer the area out of this mess. I'm from NJ by the way. No one here perceives this as dictatorship. These stay at home orders are NECESSARY. CNN was "supporting" (weird word) Cuomo because he was leading a state hardest hit in the country and was contrasting his news conferences to our President who was telling people to inject cleaner in to their bodies.

    6) "The mask debate" is only dividing stupid people and not stupid people. And yes you can rubber band cloth to your face. That is what the CDC and other doctors are asking you to do. Before I had a mask, that's what I did (I used rubber bands just like the US Surgeon General did in a youtube video). Do we really need to review why we wear masks? It drastically decreases the chances of spreading the virus. No one is saying it prevents it or makes you 100% safe. The only people who thinks it's political are people huffing on some perverse sense of American Freedom.

    And by the way, I'm not calling you stupid unless you think it's ok to go out in public without a mask right now. If you are, you're being stupid. I don't know who your family members are but... maybe the are misinformed and I'll leave it at that.

    7) Hugely botched infection numbers. I don't want to accuse anyone of being crazy, but is there some conspiracy theory you're buying in to? I don't understand what you're saying with this. People's modeling was wrong because Americans, by and large, stayed home and "bent the curve" so the models are being corrected. Modeling and predictions are only as accurate as the data provided them. With the rate of infections and deaths with a virus that is R1.5 to 3.0, modelling was scary if we didn't do anything. If that happened deaths and illness would have been even worse. But most Americans were sensible and stayed home. Modeling and trends are updated as more data is fed in to them.

    That's how modeling works.

    Fouci isn't hiding. He just did a townhall segment on CNN last week (thursday I think?). He publicly testified before congress 10 days ago. I mean you going after Fouci is just weird. That man's only agenda is keeping Americans healthy. He has decades upon decades of a public track record to back that up. I've seen plenty of news outlets talking about how we can't stay home forever, I've heard Fouci say that in multiple places and multiple times over the last few weeks. I've seen him talking about going out, enjoying the holiday weekend but wear a mask and stay 6 feet apart.

    Go watch the Governor of North Dakota the other day talking about masks if need a political contrast of R vs. D. News flash, they both say wear a mask.

    It just seems like you're trying to build a narrative here for some reason. If you want to point your finger at me saying I'm doing it as well, fine, but here is my agenda:

    1) Keep Americans out of the hospital.
    2) Wear a mask
    3) Practice social distancing
    4) Don't open the economy too soon. Opening it too fast will force us not to open it up more in the long term.
    5) Don't drink weird chemicals.

    With all the "opening" we're seeing in some places, just watch the news around father's day (2-3 weeks from now) you may see a spike in cases because of this weekend. Hopefully everyone is staying safe out there.

    Love you all, red or blue, farmers or city slickers alike.
    AMEN.....
     

    RivShore

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 27, 2019
    And masks? Don’t even get me started, it’s literally just turned into a way to divide people. I have multiple family members in the health sector and every single one of them agree masks are a joke. Once again, just another way to divide us politically. I could literally rubber band cheese cloth to my face and it would be just as effective on microscopic pathogens as 90% of the masks the public wears.
    I've tried to stay out of these discussions as much as possible but the controversy over masks just baffles my logical brain.

    Your health sector family members are coming at this from a much different place, a place of highly structured standard operating procedures to prevent infection in a hospital setting, but the recommendation for the general public to wear masks is much, much simpler than that. All the mask is meant to do is knock down the particles coming from our face holes when sneezing/coughing/talking- that's it, it's not meant to do anything more than that.

    The mission is to lower the spread of that sneeze or cough from 6 or more feet to less than a foot. That's a gigantic reduction in possible airborne infections. Even if the mask is warn incorrectly, there will still be a significant reduction in spread. If we could count on everyone sneezing or coughing into their elbow, they would not need to recommend masks, but we know to many just won't do that. And with the latest data suggesting that 35% of Covid infected people are asymptomatic and are spreading the virus without even knowing they’re sick themselves, how could anyone possibly be against wearing a mask? I always thought that Common Sense and freedom went together (thank you T. Paine on this Memorial Day) but I guess in this case even that link has been broken...
     

    WDW_Ding

    Ohana means family.
    Joined
    Jan 11, 2018
    and uses a covid resurgence as a thinly veiled excuse
    I feel we are wading in to conspiracy theory territory here, but I'll ask anyway: an excuse for what?

    And masks? Don’t even get me started, it’s literally just turned into a way to divide people. I have multiple family members in the health sector and every single one of them agree masks are a joke.
    This is where you have finally exposed yourself. Every serious public health expert has recommended masks as a way of reducing the spread of the virus. I don't care about your "family members" in the "health sector". If you are honestly arguing that people wearing masks while in public will not help to control the virus, then I just can't take you seriously at all. Good grief.

    Theres also the hugely botched infection numbers that led to the shut down to begin with, but where is Fauci now? His numbers were just wrong, and so were multiple ‘experts’ numbers and now that none of that fear mongering has come true to the extent they said it was going to, they’ve cut him from the media.
    The numbers were "wrong" because governors shut things down and normal people started taking it seriously by wearing masks and socially distancing. Also, businesses began having their employees work from home too. All of this led to the projected numbers going down and thank god they did!

    This is the problem with certain people: if we do everything we can to "beat the curve" and to lessen the impact of the virus by using masks and social distancing then you'll just say "see there, we didn't need all of this anyway!" while ignoring the fact that is was because of all those efforts (masks, social distancing, shutting down non essential businesses and schools) that thing didn't turn out worse!

    I mean you going after Fouci is just weird.
    Agree.
     

    UOAP

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 19, 2019
    On an impromptu chat with Pete and Ryno Pete said something about the SARS virus and expressed a small hope that Covid-19 would do the same thing. Listen between 49:38-49:54


    The very next day I came across this news article.


    I have been searching trying to find the article again after my computer got turned off by a cat hitting a bunch of keys because I was unreasonable in the cats mind and didn't get up to let the cat out at 5:30 AM. Cat walked on my keyboard in protest. I thought I had lost the article I wanted to share having forgotten that I had bookmarked it until I was going through and editing bookmarks just a while ago.
    We won't know until it's mostly over. I certainly hope so.
    The thing about calling them covid deaths, it's like a lot of other causes. You have cancer but get pneumonia and that's the cause of death with the cancer secondary. If you hadn't had the cancer you wouldn't have gotten pneumonia or been able to fight it etc. The person that dies of covid that has an underlying condition probably wouldn't have died on that day had they not gotten sick with covid.

    Doing family research and seeing the primary and secondary cause of death on the death certificate shows this type of thing often.
    If I had cancer and had a life expectancy of 5-10 years but died tomorrow because of COVID, COVID definitely was the cause of death. We don't invalidate proximal causes of death because people have certain risk factors. If I lock 50 people in a building and don't give them food or water for 2 weeks and the sicker and older ones die, I am responsible for their murders. I'm not off the hook because they were sicker and older than the ones who lived.
     





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