After our last trip, considering cancelling our Christmas 2018...

[SteveMP]

I agree - this sounds super elitist and mean, but I feel like they make the lowest tiers of APs too inexpensive - most people living in the area can probably justify $600/person as their recreation/vacation/whatever budget for the year, and people in the area can go as much as they want. Bump up the price (or eliminate the lowest passes) and people think twice about buying an AP and maybe instead visit a few times a year.

Regarding crowds in general, we are from Idaho and come maybe 2x/year, so even when crowds have seemed low to me, maybe it's actually not that low comparatively?

Yeah you are right that is super elitist. I would argue the reverse. Locals can afford less due to high home and living expenses, but provide a steady stream of revenue for Disney with food and merch purchases etc(and we all know Disney Dining is one of if not the most profitable arm of Disney). If anything they could bump up the cost of single tickets since people on vacation can easily just factor that into their several thousand dollar vacation budget.

 

[lcp9]

Yeah you are right that is super elitist. I would argue the reverse. Locals can afford less due to high home and living expenses, but provide a steady stream of revenue for Disney with food and merch purchases etc(and we all know Disney Dining is one of if not the most profitable arm of Disney). If anything they could bump up the cost of single tickets since people on vacation can easily just factor that into their several thousand dollar vacation budget.

Perhaps, but as most of the PP have stated that wouldn’t affect crowds nearly as much as controlling the number of APs.

 

[mom2rtk]

Plenty of sites now that have crowd level predictions. Its like not watching the news or weather reports then going to WDW during a hurricane/storm. In fact I would do MORE research if I was an out of towner.

You can research out the wazoo. Many here do. But crowd predictors get it wrong. A lot.

I agree - this sounds super elitist and mean, but I feel like they make the lowest tiers of APs too inexpensive - most people living in the area can probably justify $600/person as their recreation/vacation/whatever budget for the year, and people in the area can go as much as they want. Bump up the price (or eliminate the lowest passes) and people think twice about buying an AP and maybe instead visit a few times a year.

Regarding crowds in general, we are from Idaho and come maybe 2x/year, so even when crowds have seemed low to me, maybe it's actually not that low comparatively?

I really feel like crowds started growing exponentially around the time they added the monthly payment plans. Great marketing tool, but I think that's been a double edged sword.

 

[SteveMP]

You can research out the wazoo. Many here do. But crowd predictors get it wrong. A lot.

I really feel like crowds started growing exponentially around the time they added the monthly payment plans. Great marketing tool, but I think that's been a double edged sword.

I think just things in general are getting more crowded. I used to camp by the beach a lot. We used to drive up on friday and have our choice of beach sites. Jow I have to login at 8:00:00 AM 6 months beforehand to have a 10 second chance of getting one of those spots. Pretty much any state or national park is like this now. Its not just Disneyland, its pretty much anywhere I go. Restaurants, tourist towns, beaches, you name it have gotten exponentially crowded the last few years.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think just things in general are getting more crowded. I used to camp by the beach a lot. We used to drive up on friday and have our choice of beach sites. Jow I have to login at 8:00:00 AM 6 months beforehand to have a 10 second chance of getting one of those spots. Pretty much any state or national park is like this now. Its not just Disneyland, its pretty much anywhere I go. Restaurants, tourist towns, beaches, you name it have gotten exponentially crowded the last few years.

Somewhat. But much to DLR's marketing credit, they seem to be worse than anything I've seen elsewhere (in terms of crowd levels).

 

[lcp9]

I really feel like crowds started growing exponentially around the time they added the monthly payment plans. Great marketing tool, but I think that's been a double edged sword.

^^ yes, especially that. I’m sure it made APs possible for an enormous demographic of people that would not have been able to afford otherwise.

 

[SteveMP]

^^ yes, especially that. I’m sure it made APs possible for an enormous demographic of people that would not have been able to afford otherwise.

10ish years ago So Cal select APs were $129.(and you could add parking to one for $40-50) We used to get them every year. Now that they have tripled in price, we alternate getting them and then taking a year or two off. If they didn't have payment plans we could use a credit card, which pretty much everyone has.

 

[NewbieMouse]

I think just things in general are getting more crowded. I used to camp by the beach a lot. We used to drive up on friday and have our choice of beach sites. Jow I have to login at 8:00:00 AM 6 months beforehand to have a 10 second chance of getting one of those spots. Pretty much any state or national park is like this now. Its not just Disneyland, its pretty much anywhere I go. Restaurants, tourist towns, beaches, you name it have gotten exponentially crowded the last few years.

I agree - I think crowds are generally worse because there is more access and awareness via online, etc. I also just booked a waterside Oregon campsite for July, 9 months out - same deal - had to get up at 1:00 a.m., clicking like crazy at 01:00:00... it took 3 nights before I actually got a site.

 

[smartlabelprint]

^^ yes, especially that. I’m sure it made APs possible for an enormous demographic of people that would not have been able to afford otherwise.

The reasoning from pp that there is a steady stream of revenue from this group doesn't make sense. If they couldn't go without the AP how can they afford food and gifts?

 

[lcp9]

The reasoning from pp that there is a steady stream of revenue from this group doesn't make sense. If they couldn't go without the AP how can they afford food and gifts?

Agreed - I think most people tend to argue that APs visit for partial days/do not tend to eat in park or spend the money on merchandise that once-in-a-lifetime vacationers would.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Yeah you are right that is super elitist. I would argue the reverse. Locals can afford less due to high home and living expenses, but provide a steady stream of revenue for Disney with food and merch purchases etc(and we all know Disney Dining is one of if not the most profitable arm of Disney). If anything they could bump up the cost of single tickets since people on vacation can easily just factor that into their several thousand dollar vacation budget.

There are people in CA and other places that still can't afford the park entrance fee.

 

[DLgal]

Agreed - I think most people tend to argue that APs visit for partial days/do not tend to eat in park or spend the money on merchandise that once-in-a-lifetime vacationers would.

I visit all the time for only a few hours at a time. I would probably throw up if I saw the total amount of money we have spent on food and merchandise in our years as an AP holder family . I spend additional money literally every time I go. I am fairly certain that our yearly expenditures including our APs approaches the 5 digit mark...

 

[smartlabelprint]

Agreed - I think most people tend to argue that APs visit for partial days/do not tend to eat in park or spend the money on merchandise that once-in-a-lifetime vacationers would.

Well we're deluxe AP's and we visit only twice a year. We eat a lot but I'm not into buying things.

 

[lcp9]

I don't know if that's true for most people or not, that's just what I have generally seen argued on blogs/whatever. And it doesn't really matter - it's great to be able to go to DLR either on a day pass or an AP and spend money if you want or not spend money if you don't! For the purposes of this thread anyway, I think the bottom line is that if Disney cares about crowding (which maybe they don't), the absolute simplest way to reduce crowds would be to eliminate the cheapest AP's. I know it sounds harsh, but...Disney prices are pretty freaking harsh to many middle class families anyway. It's just at the point where many families/kids will never ever have the means to visit, which is actually really sad.

 

[Babycole64]

Plenty of sites now that have crowd level predictions. Its like not watching the news or weather reports then going to WDW during a hurricane/storm. In fact I would do MORE research if I was an out of towner.

Most of us out of town visitors have to plan months in advance and probably do more research than AP holders. I am at the parks this weekend, after spending six months planning this trip for nine of us. The crowds are pretty much unbearable, and my husband and I have both said it just seems sad it has come to this. It's sad when a trip that costs $10,000 only gets a toddler 4 rides in one day because of crowds.

 

[MacMama0930]

Most of us out of town visitors have to plan months in advance and probably do more research than AP holders. I am at the parks this weekend, after spending six months planning this trip for nine of us. The crowds are pretty much unbearable, and my husband and I have both said it just seems sad it has come to this. It's sad when a trip that costs $10,000 only gets a toddler 4 rides in one day because of crowds.

If you are only getting on 4 rides a day, you’re doing something wrong. I’m sorry, I don’t mean that to sound mean, but I have been there on extremely crowded days and between getting there early (rope drop or magic morning) fast passes (especially Max pass), we still get in plenty of rides. Heck, I can knock out 4 FL rides in the first hour or so. Did you have a touring plan in place? Did you use fast passes? Have park hoppers? Get there early? I’m trying to figure out how a person can only get on four rides in a day...

 

[SteveMP]

If you are only getting on 4 rides a day, you’re doing something wrong. I’m sorry, I don’t mean that to sound mean, but I have been there on extremely crowded days and between getting there early (rope drop or magic morning) fast passes (especially Max pass), we still get in plenty of rides. Heck, I can knock out 4 FL rides in the first hour or so. Did you have a touring plan in place? Did you use fast passes? Have park hoppers? Get there early? I’m trying to figure out how a person can only get on four rides in a day...

Agree here. I was there on the Monday the OP is posting about, I arrived around 9:30 and rode 6 rides before lunch, including GotG which i grabbed a FP for right when i got there. Simple math: lets say they are open 9am-midnight which is usual for a busy weekend day. Thats 15 hpurs. Lets say crowd levels are high, pushing many rides to 45 minute waits which is normal on really busy days, and we'll ignore outliers like GotG and Space Mountain. Assuming you got zero FPs(which would be foolish), and a ride is about 10 minutes and walk between rides is 5, 15 hours divided by 1 hour is 15 rides. So even if you did 3 table services at 1.25 hours each you should be able to do at least 10 rides. That is pretty much worse possible case.

 

[DLfan4]

WE went in January 2012 and the crowds were very manageable. some rides were walk on.

 

[MacMama0930]

Agree here. I was there on the Monday the OP is posting about, I arrived around 9:30 and rode 6 rides before lunch, including GotG which i grabbed a FP for right when i got there. Simple math: lets say they are open 9am-midnight which is usual for a busy weekend day. Thats 15 hpurs. Lets say crowd levels are high, pushing many rides to 45 minute waits which is normal on really busy days, and we'll ignore outliers like GotG and Space Mountain. Assuming you got zero FPs(which would be foolish), and a ride is about 10 minutes and walk between rides is 5, 15 hours divided by 1 hour is 15 rides. So even if you did 3 table services at 1.25 hours each you should be able to do at least 10 rides. That is pretty much worse possible case.

Right. And I mean I get that with a toddler, park hours can be drastically cut - in terms of their stamina and whatnot, but like I said, with my two kids, I can ride 15 times rides in a day, and that's with a hefty afternoon break at the hotel. That's why I try to tell everyone who's planning a trip - have a plan (even a loose plan) and know the fast pass system inside and out. It makes an astronomical difference in park experience.

 

[smartlabelprint]

WE went in January 2012 and the crowds were very manageable. some rides were walk on.

Um... things have changed from 2012. A LOT!