5th Park inevitable ?

[The Pho]

I'm willing to bet that MK's crowds will stay the same during SWGE, if not increase. I think SWGE is going to pull people who would typically not have been there. I bet that you'll have people that go down just for Star Wars and end up going to MK as a secondary destination. SWGE, if it gets great reviews, is just going to get more people to come.

They will be a lot of Disney fans traveling down that have held off, and then a lot of non Disney fans going for Star Wars. I see it boosting MGM a ton. Then while people are there they’ll check out Pandora because of its reputation and then also go to Magic Kingdom because it’s the centerpiece down there. I’d expect Epcot to drop, then Universal to also see a boost.

 

[CERS]

I'm willing to bet that MK's crowds will stay the same during SWGE, if not increase. I think SWGE is going to pull people who would typically not have been there. I bet that you'll have people that go down just for Star Wars and end up going to MK as a secondary destination. SWGE, if it gets great reviews, is just going to get more people to come.

But SWGE is not a WDW exclusive land, you'll also have it in DL. Therefore, non-park lovers might prefer DL as it's located in LA, Hollywood, close to Vegas, etc.

If it was WDW exclusive the crowds in general would go up A LOT, but being at both parks (and with DL having a 5 or 6 month advantage), I think the general crowd-increase for WDW won't be as important.

 

[YesterDark]

But SWGE is not a WDW exclusive land, you'll also have it in DL. Therefore, non-park lovers might prefer DL as it's located in LA, Hollywood, close to Vegas, etc.

If it was WDW exclusive the crowds in general would go up A LOT, but being at both parks (and with DL having a 5 or 6 month advantage), I think the general crowd-increase for WDW won't be as important.

I agree, and I wrote about that in one of these threads. I was interested in seeing if SWGE also may get less crowds than expected because DL pulled all the Star Wars only people. That could happen. However, what most likely will occur is that people will wait another 6 months for WDW due to flight costs and that World has more to offer especially if this is there once in a lifetime kind of trip.

 

[ChristianWityk]

With the building of Warner bro's world in Dubia, I believe that indoor parks have just been revolutionized forever, I would expect a new gate built in middle of the country (indoor park). The only way we see another gate in Orlando is with the closing of Blizzard Beach or Typhoon Lagoon. As a former CM at BB it would break my heart to ice gator go homeless, I just don't see them doing anything else.

 

[sachilles]

I think Disney believes that the Star Wars IP is popular enough to warrant the mega budget lands in both California and Florida. They aren't investing the money cause it's cool, they are doing it because they envision a huge attendance boost in both states.
I think all disney parks in florida, plus a few non disney ones will see attendance numbers increase when Star Wars opens.
Star Wars will get them in the state, and they'll move on to the other disney parks. Lodging will be bursting at the seams.

 

[XXRAINMANX]

As much as I love the idea of a new park I don't see it happening. It's easier and in the long run cheaper to expand an existing park vs building new ones.

Take Hollywood Studios for example. The parking lot is almost the same size as the park itself, that's plenty of space to expand if they reworked the entrance of the park. If they took out the road that is behind SWGE they could expand the new land several additional acres. If they became desperate for space they could even realign the freeway system and remove neighboring hotels for added space.

Epcot has even more available space in front of it's Entrance.

Magic Kingdom has acres of space surrounding it with relative access.

Animal kingdom could even rework the parking to gain ample space.

Until space is a premium at the 4 existing parks I just can't see them justifying adding a 5th park.

 

[tiggerguy2000]

Disney needs to expand places like Magic Kingdom or get that 5th Park going with a new theme. Universal is moving at a quick pace. Walking into the parks any time in the year it's crowded and ride wait is to much. I live here in Florida now and go all the time seeing how crowded every day is. I don't see them building the park until they have there back against the wall. I wanted to get a room and it's January with no availability. That never happened in the past.

 

[George4]

if they expand EPCOT, DHS, and AK with more... wait for it... attractions (ex. rides!) it would spread out the crowds more

MK will always been the most popular, but look at what is has to offer attraction wise vs the other parks right now

I would like a 5th park to spread out crowds more eventually...but lets ramp up the other 3 parks to have a comparable number of attractions with MK

I made this point once before as well. The ride/attraction ration for MK is 2:1, 3:1 and 4:1 versus the other parks. No wonder it is always slammed with people. And they don't all need to be mind blowing attractions. While the e-tickets always have long waits, the "heavy lifting" of crowd eating is done by all of the smaller rides and attractions. Get 48 attractions in EPCOT, DHS or AK and it will likely be a totally different story. They need to fix this before really considering a fifth gate.

 

[dm1996]

The hotels are almost at capacity every weekend. Not a single available room for last weekend (mlk, but still insane). This is with nothing new right now besides Slinky. Why build a 5th gate when you don’t have nearly enough rooms on property to sustain it. SWGE is going to be nuts and then something new opens every 6 months through the 50th. Keep investing the the 4 parks and build more hotels, then in 5 years, take a look and see what’s needed.

 

[STLstone]

Until this morning, I had 100% agreed with the conventional wisdom that there is no need for 5th gate because it would only pull from the other Disney parks and they have room to expand the existing parks. Also, the new infrastructure would be very costly.

But I was just looking at the leaked, pieced together document about Universal's new "Fantastic Worlds." A whole hub-and-spoke park of new (as-yet-to-be-identified) worlds - including Super Nintendo World.

Down the road, if vacationers have a choice of going to an existing Disney park that has just opened a single new Land or going to a Universal park with all new Lands, is Disney going to win that choice 50% of the time?

It's just an angle of this I hadn't considered.

.
.
Tweet with the leaked document:
https://twitter.com/derekburgan/status/1090012182065135616

ETA: I am assuming this document is real. If this turns out to be a fake, I deeply regret spreading this rumor.

 

[rteetz]

Until this morning, I had 100% agreed with the conventional wisdom that there is no need for 5th gate because it would only pull from the other Disney parks and they have room to expand the existing parks. Also, the new infrastructure would be very costly.

But I was just looking at the leaked, pieced together document about Universal's new "Fantastic Worlds." A whole hub-and-spoke park of new (as-yet-to-be-identified) worlds - including Super Nintendo World.

Down the road, if vacationers have a choice of going to an existing Disney park that has just opened a single new Land or going to a Universal park with all new Lands, is Disney going to win that choice 50% of the time?

It's just an angle of this I hadn't considered.

.
.
Tweet with the leaked document:
https://

Until this morning, I had 100% agreed with the conventional wisdom that there is no need for 5th gate because it would only pull from the other Disney parks and they have room to expand the existing parks. Also, the new infrastructure would be very costly.

But I was just looking at the leaked, pieced together document about Universal's new "Fantastic Worlds." A whole hub-and-spoke park of new (as-yet-to-be-identified) worlds - including Super Nintendo World.

Down the road, if vacationers have a choice of going to an existing Disney park that has just opened a single new Land or going to a Universal park with all new Lands, is Disney going to win that choice 50% of the time?

It's just an angle of this I hadn't considered.

.
.
Tweet with the leaked document:
[URL]https://twitter.com/derekburgan/status/1090012182065135616

ETA: I am assuming this document is real. If this turns out to be a fake, I deeply regret spreading this rumor.

twitter.com/derekburgan/status/1090012182065135616[/URL]

ETA: I am assuming this document is real. If this turns out to be a fake, I deeply regret spreading this rumor.

It’s pieces of the leaks we’ve been seeing for months so I’d assume it’s real.

Another park certainly helps Universal get closer to Disney but I think people will still prefer Disney to universal for a vacation. A 5th gate also isn’t necessarily going to draw more people than a new land. Look at Animal Kingdom for example.

 

[Phicinfan]

It’s pieces of the leaks we’ve been seeing for months so I’d assume it’s real.

Another park certainly helps Universal get closer to Disney but I think people will still prefer Disney to universal for a vacation. A 5th gate also isn’t necessarily going to draw more people than a new land. Look at Animal Kingdom for example.

I think that will depend on what goes into that new gate. Same for Disney.

If they put in totally new IP(Super Mario) as well as maybe some tried and true IP - Harry Potter for example, then I think the draw would be serious. Especially to get all that in ONE park, vs the multi-park pass you need today to get to all the Harry Potter.

That said, I still wonder if WDW does go a 5th gate, would it be a whole new IP area - so from MK to Epcot to DHS to AK or would they look to maybe duplicate what they have and draw on some other twist of it.

I posted somewhere else...if the 5th gate wouldn't be fun and draw as well if they took MK and made it a Villian MK - so instead of Peter Pan - Capt. Hook ride, Little Mermaid ride - Ursula, and then twist the key rides...

So Space Mountain - Black hole?, Splash Mountain - Fire Mountain


and so on. That would be a blast, and would I think....pull from MK as you have twice the capacity on those rides...and I would think cost would be less as you are just cloning existing rides(fixing key issues I hope...). Were that to happen, it would also allow you to fix the existing things in MK.

Just $0.02

 

[rteetz]

I think that will depend on what goes into that new gate. Same for Disney.

If they put in totally new IP(Super Mario) as well as maybe some tried and true IP - Harry Potter for example, then I think the draw would be serious. Especially to get all that in ONE park, vs the multi-park pass you need today to get to all the Harry Potter.

That said, I still wonder if WDW does go a 5th gate, would it be a whole new IP area - so from MK to Epcot to DHS to AK or would they look to maybe duplicate what they have and draw on some other twist of it.

I posted somewhere else...if the 5th gate wouldn't be fun and draw as well if they took MK and made it a Villian MK - so instead of Peter Pan - Capt. Hook ride, Little Mermaid ride - Ursula, and then twist the key rides...

So Space Mountain - Black hole?, Splash Mountain - Fire Mountain


and so on. That would be a blast, and would I think....pull from MK as you have twice the capacity on those rides...and I would think cost would be less as you are just cloning existing rides(fixing key issues I hope...). Were that to happen, it would also allow you to fix the existing things in MK.

Just $0.02

If Disney really wanted a huge draw for a 5th game they would’ve saved Star Wars for that. Obviously that’s not happening. While a villains gate would be fun it doesn’t have the same draw I think Star Wars will. We’ve been through this numerous times but Disney didn’t see a huge increase from Animal Kingdom, I don’t think they would with a 5th gate either. You also have employment concerns, costs, vacation time of individuals, etc. maybe it happens someday but that someday isn’t anytime soon.

 

[sachilles]

I don't think a 5th gate prevents people from going to Universal. If they have cool stuff, people will go.
All it really does is lock in Orlando as the #1 family destination.
7 day vacation, 4 parks disney, 3 parks Universal.
I think they are better off, making sure the 4 they have are not to be missed. Make sure things are affordable and lines are shorter, or if they aren't short they are entertaining.

I would love for disney to go a step beyond fast pass an institute a "no wait" pass. Use your magic band to time the interval between the first magic band reader and last magic band reader on an attraction line. If you accumulate minutes in excess of a predetermined limit (lets say 2.5 hours), then you are eligible to go in fast pass lines instead(or earn an extra fast pass).
Barring that something closer to california's fast pass setup.

Disney's bottom line is better served if you are not waiting in line for a ride. You need to be in the gift shops, and the restaurants etc for that extra income. Credit people for spending that extra money, by giving them a little advantage in lines.

I get why they reduce capacity on rides to save wages, but ultimately that is keeping folks out of the retail and food lines.

What differentiates Disney from Universal isn't the quantity of attractions or lands. It's the perceived service and "magic". As people start to see that diminish, they'll start to transition to Universal. I don't think Disney needs more stuff to retain the market, I think they need to do what they do better, and be more efficient with with it.

 

[rteetz]

I would love for disney to go a step beyond fast pass an institute a "no wait" pass. Use your magic band to time the interval between the first magic band reader and last magic band reader on an attraction line. If you accumulate minutes in excess of a predetermined limit (lets say 2.5 hours), then you are eligible to go in fast pass lines instead(or earn an extra fast pass).
Barring that something closer to california's fast pass setup.

Sounds like a logistical issue for Disney especially when they can’t gave My Disney Experience work half the time.

As long as guest spending is up they don’t care too much and it really hasn’t gone down at all over the last few years.

 

[sachilles]

Sounds like a logistical issue for Disney especially when they can’t gave My Disney Experience work half the time.

As long as guest spending is up they don’t care too much and it really hasn’t gone down at all over the last few years.

Disney has made it's mark on the world by handling logistic issues. Walt wouldn't allow that to be an excuse.

 

[rteetz]

Disney has made it's mark on the world by handling logistic issues. Walt wouldn't allow that to be an excuse.

Today’s Disney isn’t Walt’s Disney.

 

[Phicinfan]

If Disney really wanted a huge draw for a 5th game they would’ve saved Star Wars for that. Obviously that’s not happening. While a villains gate would be fun it doesn’t have the same draw I think Star Wars will. We’ve been through this numerous times but Disney didn’t see a huge increase from Animal Kingdom, I don’t think they would with a 5th gate either. You also have employment concerns, costs, vacation time of individuals, etc. maybe it happens someday but that someday isn’t anytime soon.

Sorry, did not mean to make it sound like a 5th gate is coming or needed. I don't believe they will do a 5th gate any time soon. There is too much space still available in the 4 parks they have to continue to add that would make more sense.

However, I will disagree on you on the Star Wars for 5th gate. Assuming you meant the 5th park being ONLY Star Wars I personally feel that would be a huge mistake. While the fandom is pretty large, I simply can't see that being sustaining over the long haul. Now, a "space" 5th gate with Star wars as one of the main draws...yeah that could work. I for one would love to see Star Wars on one side, and Star Trek on the other, and letting the fan boys duke it out in the middle

 

[rteetz]

Sorry, did not mean to make it sound like a 5th gate is coming or needed. I don't believe they will do a 5th gate any time soon. There is too much space still available in the 4 parks they have to continue to add that would make more sense.

However, I will disagree on you on the Star Wars for 5th gate. Assuming you meant the 5th park being ONLY Star Wars I personally feel that would be a huge mistake. While the fandom is pretty large, I simply can't see that being sustaining over the long haul. Now, a "space" 5th gate with Star wars as one of the main draws...yeah that could work. I for one would love to see Star Wars on one side, and Star Trek on the other, and letting the fan boys duke it out in the middle

I didn’t mean a Star Wars only 5th gate. Like you I don’t think that would work. I meant a Star Wars land as part of a new gate rather than part of DHS.

 

[sachilles]

Today’s Disney isn’t Walt’s Disney.

No, you are right.
Walt wasn't that good at logistics. He just had an expectation that nothing was impossible.
The current staff at disney for as much as we nitpick what they do, are masters of logistics.
My magic is but one example. Does it work to your expectations, maybe not, but it does do some amazing things, especially when it's working right.

Think about transportation logistics around the parks. Staffing, what a nightmare, but it gets done.
My above idea isn't as crazy as many they've made work, and I did suggest also that an idea they've already implemented in California, might be a better fit here. They already have the tech in place, I just think it's time to modify it to adjust to the growth of the business. Some sort of value adder.
Book onsite, get that 4th and 5th fast pass sooner. Maybe allow a park hopping guest to book their first 3 in separate parks. Good neighbor hotel, sorry, you still only get the first 3. There is a million cool little things, that could add that value.

Things like free arrival day single park afternoon admission(no fastpasses maybe), when you buy a 6+ ticket.