16 Days of MB and FP+

I was trying to accentuate the positive at a point in this thread where I was one of the nasty anti-FP+ people. (And probably still am.) ;)

And what if my favorite attractions are Illuminations, Captain EO, and SSE? I'm golden!

:rotfl2:
 
Without realizing it, the posters who keep saying that FP+ effectively limits guests to one FP per day at Epcot and DHS are essentially highlighting why Disney feels the need to limit FPs and have tiering at those parks.

Using Epcot as the example, if Soarin and Test Track are the only attractions worth having FPs for, then you should only need 2 FPs a day unless you want to ride those attractions multiple times. But, given the popularity and capacity of these attractions, not everyone can have a FP for both. So, Disney is limiting and tiering FPs so that as many guests as possible can have a FP for one of these attractions if they want one.

If guests want to ride both attractions in one day, all they have to do is get a FP for one and ride standby for the other one, ideally as early as possible when the lines are shortest. Or, if your stay is long enough, get a FP for one attraction one day and a FP for the other one on the second day that you will be in that park.

It is understandable that guests who want to ride these things multiple times per visit (or even per day) are upset that they won't be able to do that without riding standby. But, from Disney's perspective, they are choosing to improve the experience for a significant number of guests while reducing the experience for a significantly smaller percentage. And while that percentage may represent some of the company's most (formerly) loyal customers, they are most likely not the most profitable. Many of the posters who visit several times a year for a week or more at a time are likely not spending as much on their trips as the first or second time visitor, especially if they stay offsite. Any sensible company would do the same thing when dealing with limited supplies of an in demand product.

The issue of adding more attractions to reduce the demand on the couple of most popular ones at Epcot and DHS is entirely separate and isn't going to be resolved overnight one way or the other.
 


My whole problem with the new system (and I will state outright that I am hating the changes) is that it changes my "perception" of Disney.

I am the ultimate cynic. No drinking of the Kool Aid for me. I see Disney for what it really is - a mega corporation who's ultimate concern is for the bottom line. They are in the business of making money. End of story. Why I love Disney World, though, is that they are so damn good at selling magic and pixie dust that even I can forget that I am in a theme park and thoroughly enjoy the illusion of being in a special place surrounded not by staff, but cast members.

And therein lies my problem with FF+. Instead of having the focus on guest experience, they (ie: management) have pretty much stated outright that all these changes are to do with the bottom line, efficiency and tracking guest behaviour. And if it hasn't actually been said, the "perception" is certainly there. From a marketing point of view there is very little difference between truth and reality. This so goes against everything that Disney resorts and parks have built their public reputation on that for me it is like stripping away the curtain and seeing all the marketing people sitting at their desks rather than the wizard.

I have always defended Disney to those who see it as a giant evil corporate machine (and there are a lot of them, they just don't come to this board - I wonder why?) by explaining that they got to be so successful because they were very, very, very good at what they did. Past tense. Whether in the end the whole MDE, MB's and FF+ work out well for both Disney and their guests is irrelevant at this point for me. Disney has built their reputation on selling magic and pixie dust. Testing, uncertainty, confusion, errors and guest exclusions do not fit anywhere in that category.
 
Without realizing it, the posters who keep saying that FP+ effectively limits guests to one FP per day at Epcot and DHS are essentially highlighting why Disney feels the need to limit FPs and have tiering at those parks.

Using Epcot as the example, if Soarin and Test Track are the only attractions worth having FPs for, then you should only need 2 FPs a day unless you want to ride those attractions multiple times. But, given the popularity and capacity of these attractions, not everyone can have a FP for both. So, Disney is limiting and tiering FPs so that as many guests as possible can have a FP for one of these attractions if they want one.

If guests want to ride both attractions in one day, all they have to do is get a FP for one and ride standby for the other one, ideally as early as possible when the lines are shortest. Or, if your stay is long enough, get a FP for one attraction one day and a FP for the other one on the second day that you will be in that park.

It is understandable that guests who want to ride these things multiple times per visit (or even per day) are upset that they won't be able to do that without riding standby. But, from Disney's perspective, they are choosing to improve the experience for a significant number of guests while reducing the experience for a significantly smaller percentage. And while that percentage may represent some of the company's most (formerly) loyal customers, they are most likely not the most profitable. Many of the posters who visit several times a year for a week or more at a time are likely not spending as much on their trips as the first or second time visitor, especially if they stay offsite. Any sensible company would do the same thing when dealing with limited supplies of an in demand product.

The issue of adding more attractions to reduce the demand on the couple of most popular ones at Epcot and DHS is entirely separate and isn't going to be resolved overnight one way or the other.

Ok...this is what I don't get...

First up, we don't know for sure that the reason they tiered Epcot is because they wanted everyone to be able to get one. Maybe they are going to sell the others, maybe they are going to use them as incentives to stay onsite, at a deluxe, whatever. Or maybe I'm wrong...is there some estimate of the numbers there?

I also don't get the argument that you can get up early and ride standby. Then what is the point of prebooking FPs at all? I was able to do that before with the old FP, and I could do more.

I do agree with the part I bolded above though. If we work backwards from what Disney is doing, to what their strategy might be, I think the big picture becomes quite clear.
 


My whole problem with the new system (and I will state outright that I am hating the changes) is that it changes my "perception" of Disney.

I am the ultimate cynic. No drinking of the Kool Aid for me. I see Disney for what it really is - a mega corporation who's ultimate concern is for the bottom line. They are in the business of making money. End of story. Why I love Disney World, though, is that they are so damn good at selling magic and pixie dust that even I can forget that I am in a theme park and thoroughly enjoy the illusion of being in a special place surrounded not by staff, but cast members.

And therein lies my problem with FF+. Instead of having the focus on guest experience, they (ie: management) have pretty much stated outright that all these changes are to do with the bottom line, efficiency and tracking guest behaviour. And if it hasn't actually been said, the "perception" is certainly there. From a marketing point of view there is very little difference between truth and reality. This so goes against everything that Disney resorts and parks have built their public reputation on that for me it is like stripping away the curtain and seeing all the marketing people sitting at their desks rather than the wizard.

I have always defended Disney to those who see it as a giant evil corporate machine (and there are a lot of them, they just don't come to this board - I wonder why?) by explaining that they got to be so successful because they were very, very, very good at what they did. Past tense. Whether in the end the whole MDE, MB's and FF+ work out well for both Disney and their guests is irrelevant at this point for me. Disney has built their reputation on selling magic and pixie dust. Testing, uncertainty, confusion, errors and guest exclusions do not fit anywhere in that category.

Excellent post.

Prior to this MM+ exercise, we didn't need or want to see "the man behind the curtain".

Bcrook and others didn't need or want to do the math on ride capacity per Park and how FP+ will fit in.

Laketravis, lugnut33, and others did not need or want to do trip reports on infrastructure and yield management.

I did not need or want to dissect Disney analyst calls and earnings reports to gauge who they're doing this with so I can figure out when it might be done.

What it seems we all need and want is Disney to go back to selling Pixie Dust and Magic, as you so well put it, and focus on their core competency. Is turning all of us into project timeline watchers and milestone guessers really a healthy thing for Disney?
 
Excellent post.

Prior to this MM+ exercise, we didn't need or want to see "the man behind the curtain".

Bcrook and others didn't need or want to do the math on ride capacity per Park and how FP+ will fit in.

Laketravis, lugnut33, and others did not need or want to do trip reports on infrastructure and yield management.

I did not need or want to dissect Disney analyst calls and earnings reports to gauge who they're doing this with so I can figure out when it might be done.

What it seems we all need and want is Disney to go back to selling Pixie Dust and Magic, as you so well put it, and focus on their core competency. Is turning all of us into project timeline watchers and milestone guessers really a healthy thing for Disney?

This is what I want.

I also would like to see this thread back on TPAS board.
 
This is what I want.

I also would like to see this thread back on TPAS board.

I agree. I devoted the time to writing it not in the sense of "Hey, we had a great trip too!" but from the point of view that will affect everyone's future strategy when planning and arriving at the park.

Oh well. Maybe I can recycle parts of it into a post that is acceptable on the TPAS board.
 
I just came back from a trip using the Magic Bands. One of the pluses I experienced with the use of them was not having to dig out your room key to open the door. I was glad that I brought my laptop so I could change the times of my fastpasses without waiting to get to the park. The MDE app wouldn't load the whole time we were there. The lines for Fastpass+ on the rides were actually long too. I didn't feel the need to pull any legacy fastpasses considering the stand by lines were mostly under 20 minutes. I was kind of scared to do it anyways when there were cast members standing guard at every fastpass machine. What I did notice was that when I was just checking the time at the Fastpass+ kiosks the cast members were confused. I guess they didn't realize there were people who actually understood what magicbands were.
 
Anyone who thinks the new fastpass+ system is better is just dumb:confused3

Or they have different priorities or tour differently to you.

I'm looking forward to trying it out for myself. I grew up local to Disneyland and went frequently until I moved to the UK at 21. This was long before Fast Passes, and shockingly most of the people who went rode plenty of rides. (Actually, I'm just old enough to remember the ticket books where rides had different values, but that is a whole other issue.) I've never done a whole lot of the Fast Pass thing at Disneyland. On our first trip to WDW, in summer 2012, we somehow survived using very few FP and gave away some we didn't end up using. I'd actually guess a fair few FPs went unused under the old system, actually. We did make use of the hotel FP and a few others in Disneyland Paris over Halloween this year. It was crazy busy. We still ended up giving a few of those away, including a day of hotel FPs (one FP per day per person for any ride with a FP set up any time except 1-3 pm or something like that). It was fun to make another family's day a little better. Knowing we have a favourite for each of the kids, and another family favourite, "locked in" each day will actually give us a little more breathing room, I think. They may not be here on this board a lot, but I'm guessing a lot of Disney visitors are like us and didn't ever worry about making the most of the FP system before, whether through lack of knowledge or just not caring to tour that way, but like the idea of having a few must dos for their family sorted out. Being able to say "yes, we will be seeing princess X at 4 and we will be driving the cars at 3 so we don't need to do them right now" will actually cut down on family arguments a lot for us.
 

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