16 Days of MB and FP+

[lugnut33]

As, I and others have said, it's not as if the $1 billion has been spent just to put FP+ in place. I have no idea how much Disney is spending to make needed upgrades to the many systems that it operates. And honestly, I don't enjoy digging into that.

Sure, I'd like to see more attractions in the parks, but I'm not sure it's an either/or proposition (and I've seen some of the blog posts discussing this) But, in the overall scheme of why we enjoy WDW it isn't going to make or break us. And neither is FP+ or FP-.

Because of how we used FP in the past, FP+ is largely a no lose situation for us. If our plans change, and we can't change our FP+ to anything we are interested in using, we are no worse off than we were before.

Finally, as you can see, I am totally outnumbered here, and I'm not going to spend my time trying to respond to everyone. You all win. I will just take my blissful ignorance and enjoy my trips.

Don't be discouraged fellow cheesehead, I respect your opinion. Besides, it's nice to have that opposite opinion because it makes one see both sides of the issue.

 

[Robo]

Wow.

 

[rebbyparker]

Wow.

I think that's the shortest post I've ever seen you make.

 

[Robo]

Oh.

 

[rebbyparker]

Oh.

Ok, now you're just being a smart aleck. ;p

 

[Sammie]

Seriously, you spend this much time on these boards and these are the only reasons you've seen?

I have seen several posts with other reasons, and have made several myself, but you apparently have blocked them out.

Thank you.

I have given up trying to share my opinion of the benefits and I am sure many others have too. The naysayers have basically taken over this entire forum and myself and I am sure many others have simply gotten tired of them beating the woes of the Fastpass+ horse over and over and moved on.

There is only so much negativity one can stand to read.

 

[quest4dl]

That's really too bad. I only visit the boards when I'm planning a trip which is once every couple of years. I would love to hear both sides but the ones who seem to like the system have only posted complaints about being attacked. That's not helpful to those who haven't been around for the 'history' of FP+ discussions. I'm hoping to get my information by asking very specific questions about how FP+ works - not opinions of whether one likes it or not. I have not had much response to two very specific posts. I would greatly appreciate the input of anyone who has recently experienced the system. The OP made some great observations with some pretty huge suppositions overlaid (quite possible but there could be several interpretations as to Disney's motives).

 

[meg39]

The bickering about people who like/don't like FP+/MBs is worse than the constant new threads about FP+/MBs. No wonder people don't engage on this board. It's just full of "experienced" people shouting from their own soapboxes about something that they haven't actually experienced in person yet, but "already know" are full of fail. To the OP - thank you for your insight. It's clear that you have a disdain for IT/technical professionals, app and web developers and other creators of automation, which is unfortunate. Technology can only do so much, regardless of what you think it should be able to do.

Preach. Too many meanies on here. Maybe we should all stop feeling entitled to everything and just roll with it. If you don't want FP+ then save a few and stay off site. If you want perks other then just MM+ then stay on site. Either way, appreciate the fact that you get to be there at all, because there are plenty of people who don't get the opportunity.

 

[davidl81]

That's really too bad. I only visit the boards when I'm planning a trip which is once every couple of years. I would love to hear both sides but the ones who seem to like the system have only posted complaints about being attacked. That's not helpful to those who haven't been around for the 'history' of FP+ discussions. I'm hoping to get my information by asking very specific questions about how FP+ works - not opinions of whether one likes it or not. I have not had much response to two very specific posts. I would greatly appreciate the input of anyone who has recently experienced the system. The OP made some great observations with some pretty huge suppositions overlaid (quite possible but there could be several interpretations as to Disney's motives).

I was there thanksgiving week and really liked fast pass plus. I had no issues with the bands getting me into my room or allowing access to the park. I made fast pass plus reservations ahead of time and I was able to make several changes during the day (through the app). The only down side I see is the tier system at DHS, since neither RRC or TSM has a quick stand by line. Epcot was not as bad since I got the fast pass for sorin and just rode single rider at TT (10 min wait)

 

[momof2n2]

It's too bad this thread had to take the same worn out path countless others have taken. It started out with a great OP filled with first hand observations and commentary. (I appreciated both.)

 

[bcrook]

That's really too bad. I only visit the boards when I'm planning a trip which is once every couple of years. I would love to hear both sides but the ones who seem to like the system have only posted complaints about being attacked. That's not helpful to those who haven't been around for the 'history' of FP+ discussions. I'm hoping to get my information by asking very specific questions about how FP+ works - not opinions of whether one likes it or not. I have not had much response to two very specific posts. I would greatly appreciate the input of anyone who has recently experienced the system. The OP made some great observations with some pretty huge suppositions overlaid (quite possible but there could be several interpretations as to Disney's motives).

There are lots of threads started by people who just got back and Loved it!

Try this thread for specific questions, they are very helpful.

Check out the link in my signature for an archive of FP+ articles.

Check out the link in mesaboy2's signature for best use of FP+.

This entire link is about people who have been recently and tried it and didn't like it. But they were recently in the parks.

 

[bcrook]

I was there thanksgiving week and really liked fast pass plus. I had no issues with the bands getting me into my room or allowing access to the park. I made fast pass plus reservations ahead of time and I was able to make several changes during the day (through the app). The only down side I see is the tier system at DHS, since neither RRC or TSM has a quick stand by line. Epcot was not as bad since I got the fast pass for sorin and just rode single rider at TT (10 min wait)

And this is the dilemma that these discussions bring up. Quest4dl is planning for an upcoming trip. So does quest4dl try to guess how it will be during their visit or rely on reports on how it went in November?

In November FP+ was an exclusive club using rules that will probably never be in place again. Over 50% of the population was excluded from using the system. Everything Disney has released to the public guarantees that all guests will eventually have access to FP+. When that happens the experience in the park will vary greatly based on crowd level.

Disney would like as many different users signed for FP+ in advance. This could lead to a shortage of FP availability weeks in advance of trips.

IF, Disney is unsuccessful with getting the word out and advanced ride reservations never become popular, then FP+ could remain a useful item. This seems like a long shot, because FP are being booked up in advance right now and are gone early in the day with a limited number of people participating.

Then there is the technology issue. Can it even support adding an additional 75000 people a day to the system.

People who typically don't ride a lot of rides, who visit because they like the atmosphere of the parks, enjoy taking in the minor attractions and shows, who don't need to ride the same rides multiple times in a day tend to love the new system, and should always like the system. They typically don't use FP because of the hassles, but with this system they have three FP in their pocket everyday and get use them on rides they typically don't get to ride. People who go in non-peak times should have a positive experience.

People are looking at this from every angle possible before investing thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in an upcoming trip. This is why I thank Laketravis for spending so much of his trip asking questions and observing. It was research designed to help project future experience based on full roll out.

 

[angelmav]

Not really the same because that would require you to return to the same park, which we usually don't do.

You just invalidated the one thing you touted as 'best' about the FP+ with this post, since you are locked in to the same park with your passes.

I have found you and a few others to be infuriating with the way in which you have defended the WD Corp. at the expense of the guest experience.

To think, I was worried about the intrusive nature of the amount of info they would have, I dont want total strangers knowing my kids on a first name basis, I had no idea they were going to completely wreck park flow in the process.

A great big TY to LakeTravis for the post, well thought out comments and taking the time while on vacation to accumulate this data.

 

[bcrook]

And back to yield management, what do you think about the cc guarantee for dining in this process? I can't reconcile the two things. Advanced ride reservations are designed to get people to sign up for valuable ride slots in advance to keep people on site. An ADR for somewhere like restaurant Marrakesh would do the same thing. But by requiring the cc guarantee, I am not likely to book many of those reservations anymore (especially easy to get ADRs.) it seems counter intuitive.

Unless, with the advanced ride reservations, Disney expects more advanced dining reservations and every restaurant becomes hard to get. Otherwise it makes no sense to run off customers from restaurants that are not full.

I think there is a connection.

 

[Laketravis]

To the OP - thank you for your insight. It's clear that you have a disdain for IT/technical professionals, app and web developers and other creators of automation, which is unfortunate. Technology can only do so much, regardless of what you think it should be able to do.

Actually, it's been my professional career for the last 30 years, even hold a few patents. No disdain at all, nothing but admiration for the contributions made to humanity and quality of life through our efforts. But as a c-level exec in the industry, I am well aware of the negative characteristics some technical personalities can exhibit and the level of quality results provided when given too much decision making authority.

It's what one thinks technology should be able to do that drives innovation.

 

[Missyrose]

And back to yield management, what do you think about the cc guarantee for dining in this process? I can't reconcile the two things. Advanced ride reservations are designed to get people to sign up for valuable ride slots in advance to keep people on site. An ADR for somewhere like restaurant Marrakesh would do the same thing. But by requiring the cc guarantee, I am not likely to book many of those reservations anymore (especially easy to get ADRs.) it seems counter intuitive.

Unless, with the advanced ride reservations, Disney expects more advanced dining reservations and every restaurant becomes hard to get. Otherwise it makes no sense to run off customers from restaurants that are not full.

I think there is a connection.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I don't think the right hand knows what the left hand is doing when it comes to FP+ and the CC guarantee for ADRS.

I find it comical that Disney is marketing the flexibility of the FP+ system and how easy it is to change plans via the Web site/App. But if I'm in Epcot and decide I'd rather have sushi than pizza, Disney is going to charge me a #10 per person no-show fee to change my reservation from Via Napoli to Tokyo Dining.

 

[DebbieB]

Very nice!

I've been trying to put together a post about the benefits of FP+.

Of those who like it, there are really only two reasons that seem to be cited:

One is that they can book one ride on TSM** without getting up early,
AND, the other benefit, is not having to walk to the attraction to pick up a FP.

If there are more reasons to love it, they are on a list far below those two.


(** Or the E-ticket attraction of choice in the other 3 parks.)

My top reason is being able to get fastpasses for any time of the day. Not being at the mercy of the FP- return clock to try to work the return time into your plans. For example, you have ADR lunch at 12:00 and the current return time for what you want is 12:00-1:00. After they took away the unofficial "return anytime after", it was more difficult. Or you can plan fastpasses for the evening if that fits your plans better, I did that on my arrival day.

 

[glvsav37]

Actually, it's been my professional career for the last 30 years, even hold a few patents. No disdain at all, nothing but admiration for the contributions made to humanity and quality of life through our efforts. But as a c-level exec in the industry, I am well aware of the negative characteristics some technical personalities can exhibit and the level of quality results provided when given too much decision making authority. It's what one thinks technology should be able to do that drives innovation.

Lol. I totally agree. I'm a sr web/graphic designer and I am constantly balancing the needs/wants/that's cools of the internal team against the practical solutions the client is hiring us for.

It is very easy to get tech blinded and try to engineer a solution through tech to an issue that may not have needed it. And then your stuck jamming levels of complexity and this-then-that's that in the end make the solution more complex then the problem.

And I think that is evident in the OPs observation that now at least 6 CMs are stationed at a FP return station where 1 or 2 were in the past. Their primary job is to troubleshoot both user and IT issues

Overall, my main fear is that the "touring" aspect of this system was designed by people who Are taking too much for granted in the wide range of ways people tour a park and spend their vacation. It is very easy to hop out of your WDW based office and test something FP+ related and them go back to work....Ok now try it with 2 kids hanging on you, in the middle of august...one has to pee and the other is hungry, and you are trying to rebook a FP+ ressie in the middle of HS on your smartphone that has incredibly bad glare issues. (I'm being sarcastic here of course, but I hope you get my point)

 

[wisblue]

You just invalidated the one thing you touted as 'best' about the FP+ with this post, since you are locked in to the same park with your passes.

I have found you and a few others to be infuriating with the way in which you have defended the WD Corp. at the expense of the guest experience.

To think, I was worried about the intrusive nature of the amount of info they would have, I dont want total strangers knowing my kids on a first name basis, I had no idea they were going to completely wreck park flow in the process.

A great big TY to LakeTravis for the post, well thought out comments and taking the time while on vacation to accumulate this data.

I know that I infuriate you from the "friendly" personal message you sent me last week. Thanks for that.

No, I did not invalidate my point about what I like about FP+. Our touring style is usually to arrive at one park early and do as many things as we can before crowds build up. We don't need FPs for that because wait times are short.

We can then use our FP+ at that second park, where we generally wouldn't be able to do major attractions during the busy times when we have usually visited because FPs are gone and standby lines are longer than we are usually willing to wait.

 

[wisblue]

PARK ENTRY EXPERIENCE:

MB's have a visible impact on queuing, being much slower than the previous card insertion/fingerprint read process. The MB read is the slower component of the two as the fingerprint read takes the same amount of time as before.

Furthermore, the multiple reader stations physically setup in a one-behind-the-other are not queue efficient and compound the delay. Often, the line stops behind the person at the first reader while the next reader is vacant. This requires CM's to constantly prod the line. The design team clearly felt it would be more efficient to have 4 readers to 1 CM in much the same fashion 4 self-checkout stations are monitored by 1 cashier at the grocery store. But in practical use the process is much slower because there is now 1/4 the resource available at a time for assistance. Yes, it's cheaper in terms of labor - but it does increase the cycle time.

And since there is now only one CM per four possibly simultaneous access requests, that labor savings is destroyed because the high percentage of failed reads requires a second group of escalation CM's manned with iPads who divert failures from the queue for a more time consuming process of troubleshooting. This would be extremely concerning as a static number of troubleshooters are always required even if there are no errors for a period of time (wasted resources).

The entire process is visibly much less efficient than the legacy turnstyle stations and requires much more administrative overhead. An unintended consequence is now the lack of a physical barrier to entry; while not currently a huge issue now, I did on more than one occasion see individuals walk right past the readers and into the park (out of frustration, not fraud) while the CM was busy asking another guest if that was the same finger they've been using.

A couple of questions and comments about the park entry process. Maybe this will be less controversial because it has nothing to do with FP+.

Do you know how many "tapstile" entry points there are now as compared to the number of turnstiles there were before?

The old way, the turnstiles were side by side and, from my experience, there was usually one CM monitoring two turnstiles. The tapstiles are now in groups of 4 (2 left, 2 right). It is possible that there are more of them (not necessarily twice as many) as there were turnstiles. So, while it might take each person a couple of seconds longer to get through, there may be more total people entering per minute than otherwise. I don't know.

The old process required someone to put their ticket in the slot, scan the finger, and pick up the ticket on the other side of the slot before pushing through the turnstile. Also, anyone with a stroller, wheelchair, or scooter, had to be allowed in by opening the swing gate to the side of the turnstiles. This exercise also held up the line. With the new process, I can scan my band that is on my left wrist while poising the finger on my right hand for the scan. Once I get the green light I can walk on without having to scoop up my card. The difference in time is minimal, if anything.

I personally had more entry problems with the magnetic stripes (presumably because of fingerprint scan issues) than I have had with RFID cards and MBs (where I have had no problems in a couple of dozen park entries over the past year.) At park opening I have not noticed the entry process being longer, and at other times it hasn't been an issue because there have never been more than one or two people ahead of us.

Do you know if the number of problems with entry is higher or lower than it was with the old system? I don't, but I know that our experience has been better with RFID.

Obviously park entry is all about efficiency and getting people through the gates and has nothing to do with squeezing more money out of people. The issue for a person is how long it takes to get from getting in line at the gate to getting through the gate. If there are more tapstiles than turnstiles, that time may be shorter, even if it takes each individual a few more seconds to get through.

Again, do you know what the number of entry points is and how that affects how many people are able to pass through the gates per hour or per minute? That is the real measure of the efficiency of the entry system.