VDH Opening

[Epcot Forever Forever]

I can't get over the fact that I can stay in some pretty nice hotels a short walk from Disneyland for a relatively decent price compared to these costs and the taxes.

Yes!!!

 

[DMPicone]

It’s a value problem, when it shows for non owners it’s a glaring problem. I own BLT and planned to buy DLH for the home resort priority. If I use my BLT points for 9 nights in December at DLH for a standard studio it’ll cost me $2,616.04 while a studio at VGC costa just $2,133.40 which is $500 cheaper. That savings comes with a possibility of seeing into CA instead of a parking lot, a balcony, and a larger room. Even a standard view Duo costs $1,827.08 for a tiny room. The low point need for the Duo rooms are enticing, but overall the value just isn’t there when it’s cheaper to stay next door and can’t even compare to it.

 

[Brian Noble]

Let's do middle of the road math...mid-seasons at VDH in a 1-bedroom (292 points for a week per the VDH chart):

Cost per point (direct pricing, no incentives - 4.60/pt) - $1,343.20 (no "time value of money" considered)
Annual dues - $2,642.60
Transient Occupancy Tax - $798.25 (based on the chart posted)
Parking - $245 (caveat - we don't know if/how much parking will be)

If I were going to include cost-of-capital (which I think is appropriate) it is still a good deal.

$230 amortized over 50 years at 3% is $8.87/year. That puts the cost of points to $2,594.71. Add in dues, ToT and parking guesstimate, and you get $6,271.56. That's still a discount of about 40%.

It's also a thousand dollars a night. You can stay in some very nice places for that money. For example, for just a little more ($8K total) you can stay in a 1BR at the Westin Princeville on Kauai's north shore.

Wyndham has some RTU

I believe the Wyndham RTUs (which were all in Mexico IIRC) have all expired, or are about to. The trust product they sell (Club Wyndham Access) is in perpetuity, though you do not buy deeded property.

 

[Brian Noble]

I can't get over the fact that I can stay in some pretty nice hotels a short walk from Disneyland for a relatively decent price compared to these costs and the taxes.

I mean, this has always been true, and they have always been less expensive than any of the DLR hotels.

But, for some people, that doesn't matter--much in the same way that, for some people, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is simply unacceptable for a visit to WDW.

 

[vacay77]

I can't get over the fact that I can stay in some pretty nice hotels a short walk from Disneyland for a relatively decent price compared to these costs and the taxes.

This. VGC is my home resort and I love being in the Disney bubble but even I have a hard time justifying it, with the little perks that guests of Disneyland hotels get vs non-guests. Sure, there’s 30 min early entry, but it doesn’t even include access to Rise or Radiator Springs Racer whereas guests of WDW hotels get early access to Rise and Flight of Passage and Slinky Dog Dash.

 

[AstroBlasters]

As someone who has looked at hotel rates for on property Disneyland hotels (and off property ones too) a lot over the past couple years, I would say that the studio rates estimated by @AstroBlasters are at least a couple hundred a night below average for low season, high season is still probably below what I've seen Disney charge on busy weekends and last minute rates-- I think what I'm saying is that if the economy and travel demand remains strong, even with all the extra fees, you're still getting a pretty decent discount to booking at the Disneyland Hotel for studios and an even bigger discount for 1 bedrooms (I never look at 2 bedrooms, but I'd presume it's true as well). On the other hand, if the economy or Anaheim tourism crashes, you could see DL hotel rooms at/below 300 with some regularity, especially with Disney's various Magic Key/local resident promotions. If I had high convinction that DL was going to build out all the proposed areas around the Disneyland hotel, I would probably buy (especially with an incentive)-- but for the moment I'd prefer to pay the same to be at Grand Californian resale.

The Disney rates on the website do not include the tax, whereas the numbers I estimated include the tax.

I’m not sure if that changes your thought process at all.

 

[ClaraOswald]

It’s a value problem, when it shows for non owners it’s a glaring problem. I own BLT and planned to buy DLH for the home resort priority. If I use my BLT points for 9 nights in December at DLH for a standard studio it’ll cost me $2,616.04 while a studio at VGC costa just $2,133.40 which is $500 cheaper. That savings comes with a possibility of seeing into CA instead of a parking lot, a balcony, and a larger room. Even a standard view Duo costs $1,827.08 for a tiny room. The low point need for the Duo rooms are enticing, but overall the value just isn’t there when it’s cheaper to stay next door and can’t even compare to it.

But are you talking about booking 9 nights in December at the 7 month window at VGC? Is that even possible?

 

[elenex]

This. VGC is my home resort and I love being in the Disney bubble but even I have a hard time justifying it, with the little perks that guests of Disneyland hotels get vs non-guests. Sure, there’s 30 min early entry, but it doesn’t even include access to Rise or Radiator Springs Racer whereas guests of WDW hotels get early access to Rise and Flight of Passage and Slinky Dog Dash.

I maintain that there is a Disney bubble in Anaheim... And that DLH and VDH exist outside if it. Only the Grand keeps you in the bubble.

But are you talking about booking 9 nights in December at the 7 month window at VGC? Is that even possible?

Before becoming an owner, I managed 7 nights in a studio in January. But getting more than 1-2 nights between September and December is a pipedream and even then you're talking about the holidays where the point cost is double the average point cost.

 

[gmi3804]

But, for some people, that doesn't matter--much in the same way that, for some people, Wyndham Bonnet Creek is simply unacceptable for a visit to WDW.

For me, a WDW resort stay is simply unacceptable for a visit to Four Seasons Orlando.

 

[nalabear]

But are you talking about booking 9 nights in December at the 7 month window at VGC? Is that even possible?

Nope. Never was. Worse now with that ToT. Dec at 7months; lucky to get a day or two consecutive for high holidays. Early Dec; -- no way; even home VGC has competition on that.

 

[tfc3rid]

The ToT is the tough pill here... For WDW, I have no problem going to the DVC resort for a resort-only stay... DVC at DL is MUCH different. If you're staying there it is because of the parks, you're going to go to them. So, you have the nightly ToT AND you have no meaningful DVC park ticket discounts...

 

[AstroBlasters]

1) There are 55 million people in CA and surrounding states, many of whom will not go to WDW more than once or twice in their life.

2) Millions of those people will go to Disneyland at least once every 3-years. Many will go at least once a year.

3) The Anaheim tax applies to VDH, Disneyland Hotel, and all offsite properties. So it is in some ways a moot point for those guests.

4) VDH still offers a material savings to the Disneyland Hotel cash rate.

5) Staying in the bubble is a more desirable experience than staying outside of the bubble for most people.

6) They only need 33,000 families to buy 100 points to sell this thing out.

7) There are only 9 VGC resale contracts on the market, so comparisons to VGC won’t be part of the decision process for people who can’t buy in.

 

[gmi3804]

No one would be talking about the Tax if it were just built in. Just sayin'.

 

[tjkraz]

No one would be talking about the Tax if it were just built in. Just sayin'.

Well, we'd probably be talking about dues that are nearly $12 per point...

 

[Wedgeout]

They just popped their tiny ‘Bubble’ for me. The ‘Outer Rim’ is still the best place to stay.

 

[gmi3804]

Well, we'd probably be talking about dues that are nearly $12 per point...

See?!

 

[KTownRaider]

No one would be talking about the Tax if it were just built in. Just sayin'.

True. We'd be talking about the $11.79 dues instead (plus possible parking).

 

[nalabear]

ToT is fair as that's understandable. The MF is crazy high though and that's what the issue is. I for one am happy that ToT is separated out so it'll be born by those staying there, not the owners if they rent.

While there's an approximate 20-30% savings off regular rates, there's often promotions for DH and certainly PP that makes it quite even in pricing. So making the 50 year commit will be interesting to many.

VDH will certainly sell fast initially. Finding 33k+ buyers within 3 years. Let's see.

We've moved from buyers direct to indirect resale buyer consideration now (already VGC owners). It was a possible in for direct ownership, but not a this level.

 

[Brian Noble]

No one would be talking about the Tax if it were just built in. Just sayin'.

This comes up from time to time in other timeshare settings. For example, some resorts charge a resort fee to inbound exchangers. Some timeshare owners are apoplectic about that, and refuse to stay at such resorts.

But, often, it's still a very very good deal. We just confirmed an exchange into a 2BR at Hilton's Grand Waikikian for summer '24. We had to combine weeks for a fee to get it (a summer Wisconsin 2BR is not a 1-to-1 exchange), pay an excahnge fee, plus TAT plus a resort fee. Total cost is south of $2500, or about $360/night, all-in.

It's hard to find a simple hotel room at that price within spitting distance of Waikiki, let alone a 2BR condo on a resort with direct beach access.

 

[gmi3804]

This comes up from time to time in other timeshare settings. For example, some resorts charge a resort fee to inbound exchangers. Some timeshare owners are apoplectic about that, and refuse to stay at such resorts.

But, often, it's still a very very good deal. We just confirmed an exchange into a 2BR at Hilton's Grand Waikikian for summer '24. We had to combine weeks for a fee to get it (a summer Wisconsin 2BR is not a 1-to-1 exchange), pay an excahnge fee, plus TAT plus a resort fee. Total cost is south of $2500, or about $360/night, all-in.

It's hard to find a simple hotel room at that price within spitting distance of Waikiki, let alone a 2BR condo on a resort with direct beach access.

"He's right."