Gradual release

[Colleen27]

My wife doesn't work. She did some part-time animal care work as a passion project when we first got married, but never made more than minimum wage and hasn't had a paycheck since 2013. We run a household of 5 on a single income, but go ahead with how hard it is for a single person to pay for himself and himself alone.

Nice try though.

There's a reason everyone in this thread is referring to their 27- and 28-year-old sons and daughters as "children" and "kids."

I mean, your situation (or mine) doesn't change the math. It is easier to get started with two adults and two incomes than as a single person with a single income. My husband and I have been a family of five on a single income too, and that's its own kind of difficult (though of course the amount of that income matters too), but none of it changes the fact that simple math is working against young people just starting out right now. Unless they're in an exceptionally high-paying position, they're likely to struggle to leave the next.

Also, what word would you suggest using for talking about one's adult children if not children or kids? My 96 year old great aunt loves telling anyone who visits about what her kids are doing - one recently retired and is scuba diving all over the world, one is in tech and working on autonomous vehicle programming, one just got some award for being the highest-selling agent at her real estate company. They're all successful people in their 60s and 70s, but they're still "the kids" to Aunt T.

GREAT INSIGHT! this is so frequently overlooked when people (with the best of intentions) are 'helping' their adult children out financially to live beyond what they can even reasonably afford with their current let alone future earning's means.

where i have seen what i perceive as a LONG term tragic impact is when it has impacted the well meaning parent's grandchildren and great grandchildren. i have extended family where the parents 'helped' the adult kids as singletons, young marrieds and then continued on when the grands were born b/c they wanted to be able to 'help' so their grands could go to private schools, on out of the country 'educational trips', do extracurricular stuff....the parents of these kids never spoke out to the financial assistance the grands were providing, so THEIR kids looked at the lifestyle they were being raised in and just assumed they could go into similar careers as their parents (as well as attend the same pricey private schools their parents attended on the grands dollar) and live the same if not better lifestyle. to say that these grands were hit with sticker shock when they graduated and found out what those careers paid and how they in no way supported the lifestyle they were raised in is putting it lightly b/c they were also saddled with upwards of 6 figures in student debt (their parents didn't pay for college so it never occurred to their parents what that school cost when they actively pushed their own kids to attend despite not having a dime to help/grands no longer in a position to help). the grands are now in their early 40's with kids of their own who are being raised at a far lower standard of life than 4 generations prior. the grand(kid) adults feel like failures b/c they were/are unable to somehow succeed in the manner of their parents (still have never let on to the financial help they received). the help was with the very best of intentions but has had generational negative implications.

It takes more than financial help to end up in this situation, though. It takes a massive dose of communication failure and a large degree of head-in-the-sand. Not talking about the grandparents' contribution is part of it, but so is not having realistic conversations to prepare kids for what adulthood costs, what different careers pay, etc. And matters even without outside help; my BIL is a teacher and has been the sole breadwinner for most of his marriage to my SIL, but they never let their kids think that teaching now is a viable path to raising a family of five on one income, much less doing so as comfortably as they've been able to (with no outside help other than a downpayment gift of funds they didn't spend on their wedding). The pay and benefits for new teachers coming in won't support a middle class lifestyle the way they did for teachers who got into the field 30+ years ago - both BIL and SIL earned their teaching degrees with four-figure student loan debt, which almost seems laughable compared to current costs, and entry-level teacher pay has declined significantly when you account for inflation and increased contributions to health insurance and retirement. But kids don't magically know all of that. The reason their kids didn't think they could follow in their parents' footsteps and enjoy a comparable standard of living is because the parents talked with them about these realities as they were pondering potential careers and choosing colleges.

As with so many other things in life, it comes down to communication. My kids know how much help we've gotten from family over the years. They know we couldn't have managed the first few years of private school if the grandparents didn't also feel strongly about having them in a better school, and they also know my volunteer hours covered a big chunk of the cost. When my mom decided she'd rather pay for a trip, either because she wanted to go and didn't like traveling alone or because something special was happening that one of the kids was interested in but I couldn't afford, the kids knew it was Grandma who made it happen. And I think that knowledge is not only why they are savvy enough not to expect everything they had growing up right off the bat in adulthood but also why they never, not once, balk at helping out when their grandparents need them.

Only if the sign is those just out of college expecting to live the same lifestyle they were accustomed to while living with their parents.

Is it really better for both parent & child to have the child living "on their own" but only with financial help vs the child living at home with their parents?

I think living on their own, even if they need help to do so, is an important lesson in perspective and priorities. There are certain things that just "click" better when you experience them, like why you don't turn the a/c down to refrigerator temps just because you're hot when you walk through the door or the way little fixes and expenses have a way of piling up when you own a home and car. I wouldn't pay an adult child's way just for those lessons, but I'm happy to be a safety net while they figure it out (the hard way, sometimes).

 

[CdnCarrie]

Maybe things are different down south but I worked in a school for 4 years (non teaching staff) and never once saw family members helping to set up a room. Most teachers were in the same room for years so not sure what setting up there was to do. I went in couple weeks before the first day of school and teachers wandered in and out on those days.

 

[mjkacmom]

Maybe things are different down south but I worked in a school for 4 years (non teaching staff) and never once saw family members helping to set up a room. Most teachers were in the same room for years so not sure what setting up there was to do. I went in couple weeks before the first day of school and teachers wandered in and out on those days.

I definitely see kids helping their teacher parents set up classrooms. I just saw on Facebook that a mom and dad visited their only child (2nd year teacher) in colorado, played tourists and helped with her classroom. Schools are utilized for other things during the summer, plus teachers get moved grades or to different schools every year based on need.

 

[Colleen27]

Maybe things are different down south but I worked in a school for 4 years (non teaching staff) and never once saw family members helping to set up a room. Most teachers were in the same room for years so not sure what setting up there was to do. I went in couple weeks before the first day of school and teachers wandered in and out on those days.

Setting up classrooms is practically a community event at our school, but I think that might be because it is a small parish school. I know our principal's mother and sisters helped set up her room when she was teaching, and a couple of the teachers have their own kids help. One of our middle school teachers has a wonderfully artistic high school-aged daughter who does beautiful little sketches to accompany some of her mom's bulletin boards. Our teachers do take their rooms down to pretty much bare-bones for the summer, though, because that's when all the building work happens so the space needs to be pretty much empty.

 

[Disneylover99]

Maybe things are different down south but I worked in a school for 4 years (non teaching staff) and never once saw family members helping to set up a room. Most teachers were in the same room for years so not sure what setting up there was to do. I went in couple weeks before the first day of school and teachers wandered in and out on those days.

There is a lot of setting up to be done every year, in elementary school anyways, even if you’re not moving classrooms. Though moving classrooms happens a lot. Walls/bulletin boards need to be stripped at the end of the school year, counters have to be cleared, everything put in a box/bin out of the way, chairs/tables get pulled out so floors can be waxed, etc…

I’ve been teaching for 30 years. I’ve seen lots of family members help colleagues set up their rooms over the years. It’s nice. My husband comes in every year to move furniture around for me.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Probably varies depending on school division.

 

[cvjw]

In fairness …there are cars, then there are BMW’s. That’s a fine machine. I’m not big on status vehicles, but my wife drives an X3 and that is one of the best cars I’ve ever been in. But your point is well taken

I agree. I am very happy with my Honda Pilot, but my son’s BMW is sweet. The engine just rumbles - you can hear him driving several streets away. The interior is the nicest I have ever seen. It is a very beautiful car and very comfortable to ride in.

I would love to buy one, but don’t want the hassle of expensive maintenance and the unreliability that comes with driving a BMW. Where he lives, he has a BMW dealership just a couple miles away. It is 20 miles away for me.

 

[kdonnel]

Maybe things are different down south but I worked in a school for 4 years (non teaching staff) and never once saw family members helping to set up a room. Most teachers were in the same room for years so not sure what setting up there was to do. I went in couple weeks before the first day of school and teachers wandered in and out on those days.

Every year the rooms are totally torn apart. In fact the entire school is torn apart for cleaning.

Every piece of furniture is piled in a corner of the room while the floors are either stripped and waxed or the carpets are cleaned. The furniture is left in a pile for the teacher to put back into place.

Many pieces of furniture are too heavy for my wife or daughter to safely move by themselves.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Every year the rooms are totally torn apart. In fact the entire school is torn apart for cleaning.

Every piece of furniture is piled in a corner of the room while the floors are either stripped and waxed or the carpets are cleaned. The furniture is left in a pile for the teacher to put back into place.

Many pieces of furniture are too heavy for my wife or daughter to safely move by themselves.

We had maintenance staff that would do that.

 

[CGB]

The ACA mandates that kids up to 26 be covered in most cases. I think there are some exemptions for very small employers or those who self-insure, but most employer-based plans are subject to the new rules.

I wish our military-dependent children would have had this coverage until 26. Military dependents lose Tricare coverage at age 21 unless they are enrolled in college and then it's age 23. They are eligible to enroll in a young adult version of Tricare, but it's not cheap. Yet another reason why our kids came back home after college. In this house, our excitement wasn't over the salary when the kids got a new job, but if it included medical insurance.

 

[DLgal]

I wish our military-dependent children would have had this coverage until 26. Military dependents lose Tricare coverage at age 21 unless they are enrolled in college and then it's age 23. They are eligible to enroll in a young adult version of Tricare, but it's not cheap. Yet another reason why our kids came back home after college. In this house, our excitement wasn't over the salary when the kids got a new job, but if it included medical insurance.

There have been several bills introduced to try and change this and align it with private health insurance policies that go up age 26 for dependents. Hopefully it will actually get enough traction to pass eventually.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I wish our military-dependent children would have had this coverage until 26. Military dependents lose Tricare coverage at age 21 unless they are enrolled in college and then it's age 23. They are eligible to enroll in a young adult version of Tricare, but it's not cheap. Yet another reason why our kids came back home after college. In this house, our excitement wasn't over the salary when the kids got a new job, but if it included medical insurance.

Or married. One of my sister-in-law's lost coverage with Tricare when she got married.

 

[disneychrista]

This is often used as an example of why youths struggle. Sure "every little bit helps" but in truth these things aren't why youths have issues reconciling their income.

Not dig at you whatsoever but it reminds me of this meme (or well there's plenty of variations)

View attachment 688698

follow up tweets in response:
View attachment 688699

View attachment 688700

and so on, you get the picture.

Many times people say just cut out luxury/unnecessary stuff like stop going to the movies, streaming, coffee, etc like yeah that's a good idea but it's not going to magically get you into housing nor should it be the "go to" response.

I think the key is just how much the parents are helping out. Are they paying half the rent or giving an extra $100 “to get them through.”

I think living on their own, even if they need help to do so, is an important lesson in perspective and priorities. There are certain things that just "click" better when you experience them, like why you don't turn the a/c down to refrigerator temps just because you're hot when you walk through the door or the way little fixes and expenses have a way of piling up when you own a home and car. I wouldn't pay an adult child's way just for those lessons, but I'm happy to be a safety net while they figure it out (the hard way, sometimes).

I don’t disagree that somethings are only learned “the hard way” or through experience. But sometimes the lesson is also just because you want something (to live on your own) doesn’t mean you can have it. A 21yo right out of college may not be in a place in their lives to live on there own, no matter how much they want it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think the key is just how much the parents are helping out. Are they paying half the rent or giving an extra $100 “to get them through.”

My response was about "just get rid of those unnecessary things and you'll be grand" way of thinking that I was speaking to.

Not even paying half someone's rent in conjunction with as you put it "cut out certain “luxury” expenses (gym membership, cable/streaming services, music subscriptions, etc) to make it work within their income." is going to get youths out of the house.

I feel like you're missing the point TBH. Point being these things aren't the root of the issue..the old way of thinking, the pricing market, the incomes being made, etc such that those are the boundaries not these smaller things that are often quoted to attempt to paint the picture that youths are just extravagantly using up their incomes on these silly things so just get rid of them and it'll make it easier.

We just switched our homeowner's insurance company on our house for our September renewal because Progressive across the board took a big hike. Our present coverage is $480K, Progressive increased that to $538K for September and on. This new company we're with has our house insured at $690K and you know what? That's probably more in line considering the house across the street from us was listed on the builder's website previously for $716K and is quite similar to our house. Oh sure we could cut our Netflix, Paramount+, etc but is that really going to make the difference?

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

I wish our military-dependent children would have had this coverage until 26. Military dependents lose Tricare coverage at age 21 unless they are enrolled in college and then it's age 23. They are eligible to enroll in a young adult version of Tricare, but it's not cheap. Yet another reason why our kids came back home after college. In this house, our excitement wasn't over the salary when the kids got a new job, but if it included medical insurance.

And I have another reason as to why I want universal healthcare added to my list of reasons why I want universal healthcare.

 

[disneychrista]

My response was about "just get rid of those unnecessary things and you'll be grand" way of thinking that I was speaking to.

Not even paying half someone's rent in conjunction with as you put it "cut out certain “luxury” expenses (gym membership, cable/streaming services, music subscriptions, etc) to make it work within their income." is going to get youths out of the house.

I feel like you're missing the point TBH. Point being these things aren't the root of the issue..the old way of thinking, the pricing market, the incomes being made, etc such that those are the boundaries not these smaller things that are often quoted to attempt to paint the picture that youths are just extravagantly using up their incomes on these silly things so just get rid of them and it'll make it easier.

We just switched our homeowner's insurance company on our house for our September renewal because Progressive across the board took a big hike. Our present coverage is $480K, Progressive increased that to $538K for September and on. This new company we're with has our house insured at $690K and you know what? That's probably more in line considering the house across the street from us was listed on the builder's website previously for $716K and is quite similar to our house. Oh sure we could cut our Netflix, Paramount+, etc but is that reallIy going to make the difference?

I got the point which is why I said it depends on how much help is needed. If one can not afford to be on their own maybe they don't get to be. I think I am over qualified in how difficult it is for an adult child to afford to live on their own. My younger daughter makes 60,000/yr. but can qualify to rent a small studio, which run 2k & up, so she is still living at home. No cutting out of anything will help, her income just isn't high enough. She would need an additional 12k in income to meet the 3 times threshold, most rentals require.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I got the point which is why I said it depends on how much help is needed. If one can not afford to be on their own maybe they don't get to be. I think I am over qualified in how difficult it is for an adult child to afford to live on their own. My younger daughter makes 60,000/yr. but can qualify to rent a small studio, which run 2k & up, so she is still living at home. No cutting out of anything will help, her income just isn't high enough. She would need an additional 12k in income to meet the 3 times threshold, most rentals require.

Dang those memes are so accurate lol.."don't get to be" is acting like people actually want to be trodden down by the realism of the era we are in. I surely thought by your previous discussion about wanting an empty nest you'd be talking about how we as a society can work to make the youths of today have a chance by working on income, pricing of homes and rent as well as goods. I'm quite surprised by your rhetoric but best to agree to disagree and move on

 

[disneychrista]

Dang those memes are so accurate lol.."don't get to be" is acting like people actually want to be trodden down by the realism of the era we are in. I surely thought by your previous discussion about wanting an empty nest you'd be talking about how we as a society can work to make the youths of today have a chance by working on income, pricing of homes and rent as well as goods. I'm quite surprised by your rhetoric but best to agree to disagree and move on

Wanting an empty nest and being able to make it happen are very different things. There is literally NOTHING I personally can do to, that will allow my daughter (who makes more than I do) to be able to move out. So yes time to move on.

 

[indimom]

I got the point which is why I said it depends on how much help is needed. If one can not afford to be on their own maybe they don't get to be. I think I am over qualified in how difficult it is for an adult child to afford to live on their own. My younger daughter makes 60,000/yr. but can qualify to rent a small studio, which run 2k & up, so she is still living at home. No cutting out of anything will help, her income just isn't high enough. She would need an additional 12k in income to meet the 3 times threshold, most rentals require.

Your post just reminded me of another way we are helping our adult daughter - that I had completely forgotten, honestly.

She also did not make enough to qualify for her 700sf one bed apartment. The rent was closer to 50% of her income; so, I cosigned for her. She's made every payment herself in the last two years. But, she wouldn't have gotten her foot in the door without a co-signer.

It's not a fancy place, but it was safer than the other options that didn't come with income requirements - like basement or over-the-garage or backyard guest suites, or shady studio complexes in bad neighborhoods. Maybe those personal/backyard rentals would have been fine, (they appeared to be in good neighborhoods anyway), but you don't know what you are getting into with personal landlords who you will be living right next to. We all felt safer finding a complex that had management, a mailroom, repairmen, clear contracts, etc. In addition to safety, most of those "cheaper" and "in her budget" options had no real kitchen or laundry.
I don't regret "helping" her as a co-signer; and, I would do it again.

 

[QueenIsabella]

For those of you who have adult children living at home, to save on costs, I'm curious: are roommates not an option? My DD27 has always had 2-3 roommates--down to one now, she moved in with What's-his-name. My BFF has 5 kids--the three that live near her are renting a house together a town over. I realize that, for some people, living in the childhood home is nicer, you know the people, etc. But it seems like it's not even considered as an option. When he was first out of college, DH rented a 4BR house with 3 other people--not only did he have his own room, but there was laundry facilities, a full, finished basement with a bar and pool table, a nice yard, etc., in addition to the living room, dining room, full kitchen, etc.

Again, I'm just curious, not criticizing the choices of others. It seems to me like it would be a good compromise--saving on rent, while still living independently.