Top of the World Lounge at Bay Lake Tower at Contemporary Resort - *2 New Parties Added! “Enchantment at the Top” & New “Bound to Be Bad” Dates Added

[Brian Noble]

Will be interesting to see if They restrict attendees to adults, 21 or over. Naw, it’s WDW

This is similar to e.g. the Fireworks parties that include "house" wine etc. where every Disney Adult pays the same price whether they can legally take advantage of the bar or not. I don't particularly begrudge them that, because I don't drink either*. I just decide whether the event is still worth my time/money or not. And, sometimes it is. I've done a few things like this when in a larger group, because it was a shared event that was worth the overall price. For example, I'd do Savor the Savannah with my family again in a heartbeat.

-----
*: It might be more accurate to say that I've already done more than a lifetime's worth of drinking, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[bobbiwoz]

We leave WDW the day of the first party. Looking forward to the free access on the August trip. ( I hope it’s free!)

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

I think of it this way. I drive by two gas stations every day that are on the same corner across from each other. One always is 3 cents a gallon less. Why? Because they are competitors.

DVD is selling a product and is in competition with owners now selling it. So, the only thing they can do is try to make their product..which costs more..to be different.

So, restrictions and perks are the only thing they can do. For many, it’s not worth it and why resale is still healthy.

But this just gives them one thing to promote as an example of a perk that can exist.

I don't 100% agree with this comparison because:
1. DVC can intercept the transaction if the competitor's price is too low.
2. Gas is a consumable while a good number of DVC contracts get resold before they expire. An active resale market is part of the reason people who would never buy a timeshare buy DVC.

IMO resale is already painful to buy due to the difficulty of finding a contract that fits your resort/use year/points criteria. I really don't think the two tier system with small differences necessary. It just comes across as petty.

 

[Jenglish13]

Sounds like you carefully researched all options and made the right decision for you. And that's great! DVC deliberately prices "sold out" resorts high, while the focus is almost always on the newest properties like VGF and Riviera.

If I were trying to sell you as a DVC Guide, my pitch would probably go something like this:

"You can absolutely buy those BoardWalk resale points and enjoy much of what the program has to offer. You'll pay $29,000 for about 20 years ownership at BoardWalk. You won't be able to attend any of the special events, visit the lounges or access discounts on tickets, shopping and dining. You will also be blocked from using your points at Riviera and future resorts."

"The alternative would be to purchase Grand Floridian or Riviera points from me. Your cost will be about $37,000 - 39,000 depending upon resort. But the points will be yours for twice as many years as the BoardWalk. You can sell them as you get older, leave them to your children or simply continue to enjoy the points for another 20-28 YEARS after the BoardWalk points have expired. You will have full access to all of the member perks including Moonlight Magic, the villains lounge, Epcot lounge and other discounts. You will be able to use your points at Riviera and every future resort. We will throw in last year's points as a bonus. And I can easily help you finance, taking up to 10 years to pay it off. Are you ready to sign?"

The heart wants what the heart wants. But I don't think it's really fair to say the perks access would have cost an extra $17,000 without acknowledging that you paid a hefty premium for BWV either way. 20 years of BWV points with no perks and limited resort access for $29k vs 48 years of Riviera with all perks and all resorts for $37k.

Every little point of differentiation can be used to help nudge buyers toward the direct purchase.

How would you pitch to me? I just closed on 270 BLT points for $152 per point. That's $30,510 less than the current $265 Disney is selling the same BLT points for with same 2060 exp.

Totwl was included when I made the offer and closed and now it's not. I'm bummed about it, it sounded like a nice option especially if you didn't have a room with a view of the fireworks. But it obviously still wouldn't register on the value scale considering the resale discount. As someone mentioned earlier it just feels cheap and petty and unnecessary. Yes, we all know it's in the contract they can give and take away any perks they wish but it still feels crappy. I think it's psychologically more annoying when an existing perk is taken away than if you are excluded from a new perk being introduced.

I also have a problem with the concept of the different tiers. Disney sells a membership. Why shouldn't all the benefits of membership transfer upon resale? Especially when Disney has ROFR. They can hijack someone else's negotiated contact and resell at a higher price using their sophisticated marketing prowess Someone mentioned they need to differentiate to justify the higher price tag, but they already sold the original points directly! They had the first bite of the apple and they get the first bite on the leftover apple by way of ROFR! Unless they're substantially changing the product by extending the expiration or something I don't see how you can justify. You can argue that adding the membership perks is changing the product but again, these changes strike me as kind of petty and cheap. Yes, it's in the contract and it's legal but it doesn't make it right. It's really subjective. From my own perspective the zero sum black and white aspect is what I really don't like. Why not offer some middle ground access point? Make it free for direct purchasers and make others pay a fee for access, whether it's a lounge or moonlight magic or whatever. I suppose it's the exclusivity they're trying to sell. But again from my perspective I wouldn't mind paying up for some of these perks but how could I possibly justify giving up the resale discount? That's my main gripe. I get it's about $ like everything else now with Disney but there's no middle ground.

It's also funny to see us excluded resale riff raff be outraged while the blue blood direct members justify and the average Disney visitor thinks all DVC members are a bunch of fancy pants elitists! We all have our biases I suppose.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't 100% agree with this comparison because:
1. DVC can intercept the transaction if the competitor's price is too low.
2. Gas is a consumable while a good number of DVC contracts get resold before they expire. An active resale market is part of the reason people who would never buy a timeshare buy DVC.

IMO resale is already painful to buy due to the difficulty of finding a contract that fits your resort/use year/points criteria. I really don't think the two tier system with small differences necessary. It just comes across as petty.

People absolutely don’t have to like what DVD is doing but they are a business and want to sell DVC. .

They are competing for the same buyers and when you are the one with the more expensive product, you find ways to make it stand out.

The resale restrictions and the perks program are two ways to do that.

And to a degree, ROFR can have some level of impact for the competition.

So, it makes sense from their point of view to do what they are doing because their goal is to sell direct contracts..

As I mentioned, the resale market is healthy which means there are still plenty of people who are willing to go through the hard work to buy that way.

Not sure why DVD would want to make it easier or give people additional things for not choosing direct.

 

[DonMacGregor]

How would you pitch to me? I just closed on 270 BLT points for $152 per point. That's $30,510 less than the current $265 Disney is selling the same BLT points for with same 2060 exp.

But comparing direct prices at sold out resorts isn't a viable comparison as Disney deliberately sets those prices ridiculously high, specifically to steer you to the current direct offerings. One only has to look at BRV, a 2042 resort desperately in need of a refurb, listed direct at just $2 less per point ($205 vs $207) than the crown jewels of Riviera, Grand Floridian, and Aulani*.

It's like going to a Chevy dealer and ordering a 2023 C8 Corvette Z06 that the dealer has marked up $75k over the $90k sticker price, then crowing that you "saved" 50 grand when you talked him down to $115,000.

A "real" delta would be resale prices at Grand Floridian, which are hovering around $180 PP for the equivalent 150 point contract you would be buying direct from DVC at $207 PP.

* Ok, maybe not a crown jewel, but you get the idea.

 

[Boopuff]

So here's my take on this You decided to buy a product from a company, ABC. They offer a nice welcome gift, some bars just for you, and some discounts. Company XYZ offers a "used" product. They don't have any perks that they can offer, but they charge much less than ABC. The fact is if you buy from ABC you get the goods, buy from XYZ (their own company) you don't get any goods.
Let's stop the "warfare" everyone made a choice with their purchase, some things change it says it in every contract!

 

[Sandisw]

So here's my take on this You decided to buy a product from a company, ABC. They offer a nice welcome gift, some bars just for you, and some discounts. Company XYZ offers a "used" product. They don't have any perks that they can offer, but they charge much less than ABC. The fact is if you buy from ABC you get the goods, buy from XYZ (their own company) you don't get any goods.
Let's stop the "warfare" everyone made a choice with their purchase, some things change it says it in every contract!

Well said and I agree i It’s not about the owners. It’s about understanding that DVD does what it does for only one reason…to sell…and we all have to decide how to deal with them.

In this case, they decided to make TOTWL an exclusive benefit but as you said, we all make choices for reasons that work best for us…and those are the only things we can control.

 

[Jenglish13]

But comparing direct prices at sold out resorts isn't a viable comparison as Disney deliberately sets those prices ridiculously high, specifically to steer you to the current direct offerings. One only has to look at BRV, a 2042 resort desperately in need of a refurb, listed direct at just $2 less per point ($205 vs $207) than the crown jewels of Riviera, Grand Floridian, and Aulani*.

It's like going to a Chevy dealer and ordering a 2023 C8 Corvette Z06 that the dealer has marked up $75k over the $90k sticker price, then crowing that you "saved" 50 grand when you talked him down to $115,000.

A "real" delta would be resale prices at Grand Floridian, which are hovering around $180 PP for the equivalent 150 point contract you would be buying direct from DVC at $207 PP.

* Ok, maybe not a crown jewel, but you get the idea.

Sure, but not exactly relevant to my points, which to be fair were probably a little rambling and not very clear.

1 was a response to the post about buying direct vs BWV expiring in 2042 since the direct contracts were longer termed, but you can also buy resale with the same expiration dates.

And 2 the other point I'm trying to make is that the direct perks aren't nearly enough to justify forgoing the discount you get buying resale which is annoying. In other words, I'd like to enjoy access to totwl or moonlight magic, etc. but the only way for me to get those perks is by paying tens of thousands of dollars more, it's way out of proportion. And say what you want about the pricing of sold out resorts, that's still the only price available outside of resale if that's the home resort you want. So I want to buy BLT my options are pay Disney direct $265 per point or find a resale contract for $152. Even if Disney were selling BLT for $207 it still wouldn't come close to justifying the few perks you get. But I want those perks and there's no reasonable path to get them. Does that make sense?

 

[Jenglish13]

So here's my take on this You decided to buy a product from a company, ABC. They offer a nice welcome gift, some bars just for you, and some discounts. Company XYZ offers a "used" product. They don't have any perks that they can offer, but they charge much less than ABC. The fact is if you buy from ABC you get the goods, buy from XYZ (their own company) you don't get any goods.
Let's stop the "warfare" everyone made a choice with their purchase, some things change it says it in every contract!

The only problem with this analogy is the product is identical and both are selling used, it's the same number of points at the same resort with the same expiration. There's only one company that sells the product. Here's a better analogy in my opinion. You buy a car and it comes with a warranty for x number of years and miles. You sell the car and the manufacturer refuses to transfer the warranty. Why? Maybe they're allowed to but it's a crappy thing to do in my opinion.

Warfare? Really? I'm just griping a bit and expressing an opinion. I've acknowledged they're within their legal rights, it's just cheesey and crappy in my opinion, that's all. Yes we all enter into these contracts with all the info and we make our choices. And I wouldn't change my choice to pay $50-$100 less per point for these perks, I just think the choice they offer is stupid.

 

[RanDIZ]

Exactly. We used to go TOTWL from open to close all the time and spends hundreds of dollars there. So now that I’m locked out I’m saving even more on top of my Poly resale and less park time due to the prices and headaches with genie plus. It seems like every change they make I save money by not doing it any more.

Been doing the same. Enjoying DVC property more and less parks and headaches. It’s just not worth it anymore with all the price gouging.

 

[sethschroeder]

How would you pitch to me? I just closed on 270 BLT points for $152 per point. That's $30,510 less than the current $265 Disney is selling the same BLT points for with same 2060 exp.

Easy I don't sell you on BLT I sell you on VGF which are nicer larger rooms and allows you to walk over to the Epcot monorail instead of needing to transfer.

With BLT you are missing out on the direct perks like discounts on tickets, access to special events including moonlight magic that is free to members and includes food + drinks, plus the ability to decide to take time at sea on an exclusive Disney Cruise Line offerings.

With BLT you are essentially spending $1080 per year for you points. If you buy VGF today from Disney not only do you get instant access to your points and all the benefits you will be paying what averages out to just $200 more per year.

For $200/year don't you want all the exclusive benefits and the amazing VGF resort? Also did I forget to mention you will have access to all the latest best resorts that come out from Disney? Which right now includes Riviera, which is our premium resort for the Epcot area.

 

[john7994]

The only problem with this analogy is the product is identical and both are selling used, it's the same number of points at the same resort with the same expiration. There's only one company that sells the product. Here's a better analogy in my opinion. You buy a car and it comes with a warranty for x number of years and miles. You sell the car and the manufacturer refuses to transfer the warranty. Why? Maybe they're allowed to but it's a crappy thing to do in my opinion.

Warfare? Really? I'm just griping a bit and expressing an opinion. I've acknowledged they're within their legal rights, it's just cheesey and crappy in my opinion, that's all. Yes we all enter into these contracts with all the info and we make our choices. And I wouldn't change my choice to pay $50-$100 less per point for these perks, I just think the choice they offer is stupid.

Why is it cheesey and crappy? You freely admitted all the money you saved by going resale - great - good for you (as did I along with a direct contract). You understood the rules and how the perks may change, so I am not understanding why the "choice they offer is stupid". What difference does it make to you what DVC does after you made your decision?

 

[Jenglish13]

Easy I don't sell you on BLT I sell you on VGF which are nicer larger rooms and allows you to walk over to the Epcot monorail instead of needing to transfer.

With BLT you are missing out on the direct perks like discounts on tickets, access to special events including moonlight magic that is free to members and includes food + drinks, plus the ability to decide to take time at sea on an exclusive Disney Cruise Line offerings.

With BLT you are essentially spending $1080 per year for you points. If you buy VGF today from Disney not only do you get instant access to your points and all the benefits you will be paying what averages out to just $200 more per year.

For $200/year don't you want all the exclusive benefits and the amazing VGF resort? Also did I forget to mention you will have access to all the latest best resorts that come out from Disney? Which right now includes Riviera, which is our premium resort for the Epcot area.

Resort preferences are obviously subjective. I like BLT and want ability to book there 11 months out. Can't I get most of these discounts with a credit card? BLT dues are $7.08 per point and VGF are $7.01 per point, that comes out to less than $20 difference per year for 270 points. I don't know personally but don't most say using points for cruises or other non DVC resorts is not cost effective at all?

 

[Jenglish13]

Why is it cheesey and crappy? You freely admitted all the money you saved by going resale - great - good for you (as did I along with a direct contract). You understood the rules and how the perks may change, so I am not understanding why the "choice they offer is stupid". What difference does it make to you what DVC does after you made your decision?

I think it's cheesey and crappy to take away a small perk like totwl access from DVC members in general, and especially from BLT owners. You don't have to agree, I've clearly said it's just my opinion. And yes I've acknowledged they're legally entitled to remove perks for any members, direct or otherwise and I'm entitled to my opinion about it when they decide to do it. The difference it makes to me is that I'm no longer allowed entry to a location I previously was allowed to. There are all sorts of things that people and corporations are allowed and entitled to do that I would think are crappy. Maybe next year DVC will take away free parking for resale buyers and that (I think) would be both allowed and crappy in my opinion! Let's not give them any other ideas!

When I said the choice they offer is stupid it was in the specific context of my own personal circumstance. For me to become a new owner at BLT and have access to totwl lounge it would cost me tens of thousands of dollars. My options are to pay $265 direct (can I even do that as a non existing member? the website lists only 3 properties for sale as far as I can tell) or pay the $152 via resale. Can I pay a $25 cover at the door to enter? No. Can I pay an annual fee for access? No. I must buy direct and if I want BLT that means $265 per point. That's stupid.

I'm not making legal arguments just expressing my own opinion on the principle. If you want to entice direct purchasers offer newer better products (Riviera, extended expirations, discounts, etc.) but don't take away benefits previously used to entice existing members. Again just my opinion, no need to agree with it.

 

[TraJon]

How would you pitch to me? I just closed on 270 BLT points for $152 per point. That's $30,510 less than the current $265 Disney is selling the same BLT points for with same 2060 exp.

Totwl was included when I made the offer and closed and now it's not. I'm bummed about it, it sounded like a nice option especially if you didn't have a room with a view of the fireworks. But it obviously still wouldn't register on the value scale considering the resale discount. As someone mentioned earlier it just feels cheap and petty and unnecessary. Yes, we all know it's in the contract they can give and take away any perks they wish but it still feels crappy. I think it's psychologically more annoying when an existing perk is taken away than if you are excluded from a new perk being introduced.

I also have a problem with the concept of the different tiers. Disney sells a membership. Why shouldn't all the benefits of membership transfer upon resale? Especially when Disney has ROFR. They can hijack someone else's negotiated contact and resell at a higher price using their sophisticated marketing prowess Someone mentioned they need to differentiate to justify the higher price tag, but they already sold the original points directly! They had the first bite of the apple and they get the first bite on the leftover apple by way of ROFR! Unless they're substantially changing the product by extending the expiration or something I don't see how you can justify. You can argue that adding the membership perks is changing the product but again, these changes strike me as kind of petty and cheap. Yes, it's in the contract and it's legal but it doesn't make it right. It's really subjective. From my own perspective the zero sum black and white aspect is what I really don't like. Why not offer some middle ground access point? Make it free for direct purchasers and make others pay a fee for access, whether it's a lounge or moonlight magic or whatever. I suppose it's the exclusivity they're trying to sell. But again from my perspective I wouldn't mind paying up for some of these perks but how could I possibly justify giving up the resale discount? That's my main gripe. I get it's about $ like everything else now with Disney but there's no middle ground.

It's also funny to see us excluded resale riff raff be outraged while the blue blood direct members justify and the average Disney visitor thinks all DVC members are a bunch of fancy pants elitists! We all have our biases I suppose.

You are brilliant riff raff! That savings, DAMN.

 

[tjkraz]

Resort preferences are obviously subjective. I like BLT and want ability to book there 11 months out. Can't I get most of these discounts with a credit card? BLT dues are $7.08 per point and VGF are $7.01 per point, that comes out to less than $20 difference per year for 270 points. I don't know personally but don't most say using points for cruises or other non DVC resorts is not cost effective at all?

You made a calculated decision to buy BLT. And your decision to buy resale was fueled by DVC choosing to make their BLT direct price a very poor value.

Anecdotally, most buyers aren’t single-mindedly focused on one resort. They’re open to being swayed toward one destination or another, either consciously or subconsciously. They tour Riviera or Grand Floridian and love it. Or at least agree that its worth taking their chances at 7 months for other locations.

You feel like you “saved” $30k over DVC’s direct price on BLT, when really it’s just a manufactured number. Next year it will be $32k and then $35k. And DVC will happily steer buyers to the “more economical” Riviera and Grand Floridian.

My pitch to you is that you could have bought Riviera for about $8k more and gotten a contract that‘s 10 years longer, last year’s points, any use year of your choice, any contract size of your choice, full access to book all resorts (you are already blocked from Riviera, likely Disneyland Hotel and perhaps the new Poly tower), and access to all of the DVC member perks.

If I recognized your affection for BLT, maybe I suggest you split the purchase. Buy 150 points at Riviera for a premium of $4-5k, and then the rest at BLT resale. There is undeniable appeal to two home resorts. Not many people stay at the same location year-after-year-after-year. Use banking and borrowing to stay at BLT every other trip, and then book Riviera or some other location on the odd years. Full access to perks, longer contract, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Many buyers are open to guidance on their purchase.

Disney has expectations for a certain level of profitability with each new resort. They aren’t going to let resale set a ceiling on overall prices. Disney will use other methods under their control to incentivize the direct purchase. Call it cheesy or crappy if you wish, but the practice isn’t going away.

Other timeshare systems use similar methods to differentiate direct from resale. Some allow resale owners to buy-up to the direct level of perks. Perhaps DVC will do the same someday.

 

[Jenglish13]

That's a solid argument that I'd be open to. The wife is all about BLT though and this purchase wasn't gonna happen otherwise! We wanted to have enough points to book a 1 bedroom for a week each year. I like the split stay idea too. I'm already trying to persuade her to do a second small contract at BCV. But I've been about as good at persuading her on that as I have been persuading you all that this totwl thing is BS! So I guess you won't be seeing me at storm along bay anytime soon.

I absolutely do not think I "saved" $30k as I agree the direct BLT price is simply ridiculous. That's actually kinda my point, paying over $70k for 270 BLT points would be stupid but essentially would be the only way for me to become an owner at BLT at the level I wanted and get access to totwl. This is the point I guess I'm not making clearly enough. They're not offering any other way. But I get it, as someone else pointed out that's not their concern, their concern is selling direct points.
I'm not arguing against direct purchase, I think it's a great idea especially with good incentives. It just wasn't a viable option for me I get they have an agenda and I have no problem with new perks or restrictions on new properties but to take away something like totwl access just strikes me as petty and a crappy way to discourage resale/encourage direct, especially for BLT owners. What's next, kicking poly resale buyers out of Ohana? And I think these small scale restrictions are highly unlikely to persuade someone to purchase direct who was otherwise going to buy resale. But yes you're right complain and call it what I want it's going to happen and shouldn't be very surprising. But to be honest to see BLT owners get restricted from a facility within their own resort did surprise me a little. That's messed up, even for a greedy 6 foot rat!

 

[Sandisw]

I think it's cheesey and crappy to take away a small perk like totwl access from DVC members in general, and especially from BLT owners. You don't have to agree, I've clearly said it's just my opinion. And yes I've acknowledged they're legally entitled to remove perks for any members, direct or otherwise and I'm entitled to my opinion about it when they decide to do it. The difference it makes to me is that I'm no longer allowed entry to a location I previously was allowed to. There are all sorts of things that people and corporations are allowed and entitled to do that I would think are crappy. Maybe next year DVC will take away free parking for resale buyers and that (I think) would be both allowed and crappy in my opinion! Let's not give them any other ideas!

When I said the choice they offer is stupid it was in the specific context of my own personal circumstance. For me to become a new owner at BLT and have access to totwl lounge it would cost me tens of thousands of dollars. My options are to pay $265 direct (can I even do that as a non existing member? the website lists only 3 properties for sale as far as I can tell) or pay the $152 via resale. Can I pay a $25 cover at the door to enter? No. Can I pay an annual fee for access? No. I must buy direct and if I want BLT that means $265 per point. That's stupid.

I'm not making legal arguments just expressing my own opinion on the principle. If you want to entice direct purchasers offer newer better products (Riviera, extended expirations, discounts, etc.) but don't take away benefits previously used to entice existing members. Again just my opinion, no need to agree with it.

Unfortunately, this is exactly why DVD has made the decisions they have made.

They want people to not only buy direct, but also buy the new resorts which have millions of points still to be sold.

They don’t want you to buy BLT which sold out years ago. So, someone like you had a much harder decision.

But, that is the whole purpose. And DVD does hold all the cards as being the only one who can enhance the product with incidental benefits, which now includes TOTWL.

Of course, no one is going to buy direct just because TOTWL is now a perk, but when listing pros and cons, it has now moved to the direct column only.


For you, the savings has been well worth it to forgo perks and restrictions because you knew BLT is where you wanted to own and it would be crazy to pay that to DVD.

But someone like me and plenty of others, it was worth it to go direct and have those options. Maybe not so much for perks, but for unrestricted points.

I think once DVD began down the road of differentiating between the two, the writing was on the wall that everything would be fair game.

It’s also why this move convinces me even more Poly tower will be a new association with restrictions.

 

[xdan0920]

"You can absolutely buy those BoardWalk resale points and enjoy much of what the program has to offer. You'll pay $29,000 for about 20 years ownership at BoardWalk. You won't be able to attend any of the special events, visit the lounges or access discounts on tickets, shopping and dining.

You forgot to add “perks aren’t guaranteed and we plan to start charging for them soon. Also over the years we’ve slowly taken away many perks, soooo”

It's also funny to see us excluded resale riff raff be outraged while the blue blood direct members justify and the average Disney visitor thinks all DVC members are a bunch of fancy pants elitists! We all have our biases I suppose.

I’m direct and I’m firmly with you. Then again I don’t need to justify paying $200pp so maybe I’m a little diff.