AP sales…

[CarolynFH]

I haven’t followed the CA case closely, but I do wonder if it was a factor in suspending AP sales in Florida. They are different states, but still seems like they may want to avoid a copycat suit or at least minimize damages if one is filed anyway.

I think it’s also possible that the outcome of that suit might provide some guidance as far as how much park capacity Disney has to set aside or reserve for AP holders.

 

[BeachClub2014]

We’re not talking exclusively about discounted APs. We’re consumers of a product which encourages spending significant amounts of our vacation time at WDW - locks us in.

We bought into the Disney lifestyle, so it’s not unreasonable to lament a ticket offering which allows some of us to effectively enjoy that product. I don’t think anyone in this thread has mentioned perks (i.e. discounted - can we really call it that anymore anyway? - APs).

Not to further an argument, but if you go back and read my post carefully I never said anything about discounted annual passes other than my hope for Disney to begin selling annual passes again, and if they do, that there be a discount program for DVC members.

 

[Isamar]

The problem with the current AP and park pass bucket structure is that it is really deceptive, especially in the case of California. In California, they literally sold an premium priced AP that cost more so you could use it on weekends, and then had NO weekend availability for months for AP holders while simultaneously still selling day passes for walk-ups. There are other ways to throttle AP’s without being so deceptive. For example, you could, up front, state “this annual pass entitles you to ‘X’ visits per year, no more.” Then at least you’re being honest about the product you’re delivering. Plenty of other variations on that.

I’ve thought about this too. They could offer tiers of AP’s that entitle you to different numbers of visits within a 12-month period. For example, I think a pass for 30 or 45 park days in a 12-month period would probably satisfy the needs of most DVC members who need an AP to make multiple yearly Disney trips cost-effective.
Plus, instead of a total blackout during a a peak period (like Christmas) on DVC-discounted passes, just charge a reasonable premium to access that period.

 

[Madame]

Having said that, I've never had the understanding that DVC membership comes with the right to purchase reduced-cost tickets, APs, or any other perks for that matter.

Not to further an argument, but if you go back and read my post carefully I never said anything about discounted annual passes other than my hope for Disney to begin selling annual passes again, and if they do, that there be a discount program for DVC members.

I was referring to the sentence above which indicated « reduced-cost » specifically.

 

[Sandisw]

I haven’t followed the CA case closely, but I do wonder if it was a factor in suspending AP sales in Florida. They are different states, but still seems like they may want to avoid a copycat suit or at least minimize damages if one is filed anyway.

At this point, since they have not returned, I am definitely thinking it’s this over capacity alone.

Park reservations system is here to stay so this will shape things IMO in the terms and conditions moving forward in how they sell APs and their use. So it makes sense to me to why they have not returned them to sale until this outcome is decided.

 

[lowlight]

I’ve thought about this too. They could offer tiers of AP’s that entitle you to different numbers of visits within a 12-month period. For example, I think a pass for 30 or 45 park days in a 12-month period would probably satisfy the needs of most DVC members who need an AP to make multiple yearly Disney trips cost-effective.
Plus, instead of a total blackout during a a peak period (like Christmas) on DVC-discounted passes, just charge a reasonable premium to access that period.

Why is everyone so willing to give things back to Disney which we already pay a premium for? “Oh if only Disney would bring back APs, I’d be ok with them only being good for 13 days of which half have to fall on full moons, and requires Chapek to spank my behind when entering the parks for being a naughty low value guest”. No. I don’t want neutered APs. Disney isn’t some struggling business that I have to feel sorry for and make concessions so they can be profitable. I want the exact same APs we had, nothing more, nothing less.

It’s one of the reasons we are in this situation, because people don’t have the fortitude. I’m to blame also. When APs came back and were 40 percent more expensive with no discounts, I should have walked. But I rationalized that since I go almost 20 days a year it was still worth it. Companies will keep pushing until we push back. I’m in no place to demand anything from Disney, but I have self respect and have drawn my line in the sand. Change the APs again to be way more expensive or less useful, or don’t bring them back and I’m gone. I hope I’m not alone.

 

[Sandisw]

Why is everyone so willing to give things back to Disney which we already pay a premium for? “Oh if only Disney would bring back APs, I’d be ok with them only being good for 13 days of which half have to fall on full moons, and requires Chapek to spank my behind when entering the parks for being a naughty low value guest”. No. I don’t want neutered APs. Disney isn’t some struggling business that I have to feel sorry for and make concessions so they can be profitable. I want the exact same APs we had, nothing more, nothing less.

It’s one of the reasons we are in this situation, because people don’t have the fortitude. I’m to blame also. When APs came back and were 40 percent more expensive with no discounts, I should have walked. But I rationalized that since I go almost 20 days a year it was still worth it. Companies will keep pushing until we push back. I’m in no place to demand anything from Disney, but I have self respect and have drawn my line in the sand. Change the APs again to be way more expensive or less useful, or don’t bring them back and I’m gone. I hope I’m not alone.

I completely agree that everyone has to make their own judgements on how to accept or not accept the changes Disney or any company makes

But it is still a personal choice and has nothing to do with self respect but just different levels of what one needs to still make Disney enjoyable.

If DPEP decided to discontinue the AP altogether...they will lose guests from all sectors because it is a big money maker between DVC, FL residents and regular repeat cash guests.

That is why I believe they will be back because this impacts way more than just owners of DVC.

 

[sheilafri]

I’ve thought about this too. They could offer tiers of AP’s that entitle you to different numbers of visits within a 12-month period. For example, I think a pass for 30 or 45 park days in a 12-month period would probably satisfy the needs of most DVC members who need an AP to make multiple yearly Disney trips cost-effective.
Plus, instead of a total blackout during a a peak period (like Christmas) on DVC-discounted passes, just charge a reasonable premium to access that period.

This is an intriguing idea. Thirty days is certainly enough for me and I don’t even own DVC. I’m not sure how it would tie in with using reservations to control park capacity.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

That is why I believe they will be back because this impacts way more than just owners of DVC.

Change is the only constant in the universe. The only question in my mind is how long for that change to come about and if I can weather the storm until we come out on the other end.

So far, my safety line is well secured on the ship; I am not in danger of being knocked off by a rogue wave. Whether I cut the line and jump off the ship is always a possibility, but I am not there yet.

TBH my issues with Disney right now are more in other areas (such as woke) which would start a whole different fight on the boards, so lets just steer clear of that. But if I chose to abandon ship, that would be more the reason.

AP's... It's hard to draw my line in the sand there only because in all the years I have been a DVC member, I only had AP's for maybe a third of them. I would be all for a ticket that would work my way. That's not me giving up my self respect, or compromising, or anything. If Disney offers a product more geared to the way I vacation, why would I have a problem with that?

 

[lowlight]

AP's... It's hard to draw my line in the sand there only because in all the years I have been a DVC member, I only had AP's for maybe a third of them. I would be all for a ticket that would work my way. That's not me giving up my self respect, or compromising, or anything. If Disney offers a product more geared to the way I vacation, why would I have a problem with that?

Saying if it doesn’t affect you then you don’t care what they do is just counter to the way I choose to live my life, but I understand not everyone feels that way and didn’t mean to sound so judgmental, it is more frustration than judgment. Apes together strong.

 

[Greyhound22]

Question .... My wife and I just moved to FL and aren't happy (like most) about the AP suspension. Waited my entire Disney-life and now can't even purchase a decent AP.

I plan to purchase the "Pixie Dust" AP or just a 4-day pass for our trip in June. If I did one over the other, would I be able to put the amount of the regular tickets or PD-AP towards a Sorcerer AP, if they begin selling again. Or even possibly if they change and offer another type of AP? IOW, am I better off if AP do come back to do the regular 4-day tickets or buy the PD-AP??? TIA!

 

[Madame]

Question .... My wife and I just moved to FL and aren't happy (like most) about the AP suspension. Waited my entire Disney-life and now can't even purchase a decent AP.

I plan to purchase the "Pixie Dust" AP or just a 4-day pass for our trip in June. If I did one over the other, would I be able to put the amount of the regular tickets or PD-AP towards a Sorcerer AP, if they begin selling again. Or even possibly if they change and offer another type of AP? IOW, am I better off if AP do come back to do the regular 4-day tickets or buy the PD-AP??? TIA!

I don’t know the answer, but would leave the purchase as late as possible in hopes there is movement on APs…

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Saying if it doesn’t affect you then you don’t care what they do is just counter to the way I choose to live my life, but I understand not everyone feels that way and didn’t mean to sound so judgmental, it is more frustration than judgment. Apes together strong.

That's a tough call, my friend. There are a lot of causes that people get upset about and I would love to show my support for. But I am not going to abandon my 50K+ investment in Disney because they made a temporary business decision that someone else is upset about.

It's one thing if your asking me to stop drinking as much of some particular soda because they are supporting terrorists (not saying anyone is). It's another to ask me to sell my piece of property because they made a business decision that although it has an effect on me, I have decided I can live with, but others may not.

That's a personal choice - and although I defend your right to make your choice, I also defend my right to make mine. It's not fair to ask me to sell my investment because of your choice. But I entirely understand your frustration and if you decide to leave, I get the reason why. I will even express my frustration on your behalf to Disney if ever asked or given the choice of presenting my opinion. So, yeah - I feel ya.

 

[pianomanzano]

At this point, since they have not returned, I am definitely thinking it’s this over capacity alone.

Park reservations system is here to stay so this will shape things IMO in the terms and conditions moving forward in how they sell APs and their use. So it makes sense to me to why they have not returned them to sale until this outcome is decided.

Is there even a basis for a similar lawsuit at WDW? I haven't looked at AP reservations availability since our last trip in February, but I don't ever recall there ever being a completely "sold out" day for AP reservations, maybe a couple days where it was just select parks but not for all 4 parks. But we do see days where parks are sold out from the ticketing side.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I can't sell you a Maserati and then put a Ford engine inside it and tell you it was In the contact so too bad.

???

Yes you can.

 

[lowlight]

That's a tough call, my friend. There are a lot of causes that people get upset about and I would love to show my support for. But I am not going to abandon my 50K+ investment in Disney because they made a temporary business decision that someone else is upset about.

It's one thing if your asking me to stop drinking as much of some particular soda because they are supporting terrorists (not saying anyone is). It's another to ask me to sell my piece of property because they made a business decision that although it has an effect on me, I have decided I can live with, but others may not.

That's a personal choice - and although I defend your right to make your choice, I also defend my right to make mine. It's not fair to ask me to sell my investment because of your choice. But I entirely understand your frustration and if you decide to leave, I get the reason why. I will even express my frustration on your behalf to Disney if ever asked or given the choice of presenting my opinion. So, yeah - I feel ya.

The original statement I made was in response to someone saying they’d be ok if Disney changed APs to just a set number of days per year. I don’t expect anyone to sell their timeshare to prove a point. I only meant that even if it doesn’t affect them personally, ie they only go 14 days a year and would be ok with Disney changing APs to that, that they should still voice their displeasure at Disney even if it doesn’t affect their usage pattern. Less for more should be something all Disney fans unify against whether they can afford it or not. For me personally, I said I would sell my APs if they are discontinued. I never expected anyone else to, but I hope more would. I don’t expect APs to be discontinued, so this is all a moot point.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

The original statement I made was in response to someone saying they’d be ok if Disney changed APs to just a set number of days per year. I don’t expect anyone to sell their timeshare to prove a point. I only meant that even if it doesn’t affect them personally, ie they only go 14 days a year and would be ok with Disney changing APs to that, that they should still voice their displeasure at Disney even if it doesn’t affect their usage pattern. Less for more should be something all Disney fans unify against whether they can afford it or not. For me personally, I said I would sell my APs if they are discontinued. I never expected anyone else to, but I hope more would. I don’t expect APs to be discontinued, so this is all a moot point.

Ok, yeah - I follow you. As mentioned, I am unhappy they have discontinued AP's, but I suspect that's only temporary (as I said, Change is the only constant). But if they come back and they offer a lot less for the same price, I completely get that a lot of people will be very upset, and hopefully everyone will give their feedback in appropriate ways.

It would not shock me if - when AP's come back - they come back at a price increase. Hopefully Disney will also offer different options which - for a reduced price - will meet the way others vacation and I think the # of days is a solid option (basically it's not an AP, but a 14 day ticket with a year long expiration which I think makes total sense and I would hop right on board that train).

Personally, I think Disney as a whole is facing an existential question of quality vs quantity of guests and I feel that they are leaning toward quality (which I am personally ok with). But that's just my personal opinion. Only time will tell.

 

[RoseGold]

I plan to purchase the "Pixie Dust" AP or just a 4-day pass for our trip in June. If I did one over the other, would I be able to put the amount of the regular tickets or PD-AP towards a Sorcerer AP, if they begin selling again. Or even possibly if they change and offer another type of AP? IOW, am I better off if AP do come back to do the regular 4-day tickets or buy the PD-AP??? TIA!

You used to be able to pay the difference to upgrade. Who knows what system will come back

As a Florida resident, I'd be sure to buy the Pixie Dust pass. The fact that they held on to that pass shows me they plan to keep a very restricted Florida pass of some kind. As a FL resident, I'd want to be in the renewal bucket if this all shuts down. I actually would buy sooner than later, in case they yank that one too. It's a no brainer over 4 day tickets IMO, if nothing else you get the hopper and the AP discounts.

 

[Miffy]

Of course there are some people who bought knowing that the gold AP was offered,

I added my adult kids in 2019 when I bought RIV so they would be blue card owners and have access to that AP.

But I also knew it could go away anytime and so far, only 3 of 9 of us have gotten them. I am certainly not angry about it because I was aware of it and I knew that DVC has no control over any ticket offerings.

So, if they never return, then we gambled and won’t end up with the long term savings we had hoped we would get. They will still get whatever perks there are and that 20% discount on merchandise and 10% off meals most places will be something that they wouldn’t have had we not added them.

Again, I completely get frustration and disappointment but I am just not one who blames Disney for having given me a benefit that I knew was not guaranteed and now find it gone.

But, @Sandisw, there's currently no AP available for purchase. So, forgetting the DVC discount, a DVC owner can't even purchase a regular out-of-state AP. I could see this making a big difference for out-of-state DVC owners who like going to the parks. I don't own DVC since it was never in my budget, but I do have an out-of-state AP that I've kept renewing, and I'm glad I did since the ticket prices are so crazy-expensive now that the also-expensive AP seems like a bargain (of sorts).

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

The issue with this is, I don't want to concede one more got dang thing to Disney. I've conceded dozens of things in the past few years in the name of "pandemic" or "short staffing" or "shortages" or "high demand" or "inflation" or just plain "Disney wanting a higher spending park visitor", the list goes on. I don't want to offer Disney a way to realize more profit on something that is already very profitable. Sure, they can make it for on-site stays only, or make it limited to a certain number of days a year, or a bunch of things, but the AP is the last "value" item left in the ENTIRE universe of Disney, and even then, it had 40% of it's value chewed out when it changed from Gold to Sorcerer. I have no way of stopping Disney from doing anything, and even if a hundred people agreed and left with me it wouldn't even be a blip on the balance sheet, but I won't pay more for it, or accept it when it's rebirthed as a more limited product at a higher cost. Disney has poked and prodded me for the past few years with price increases and I smile through clenched teeth each time, but this would be the proverbial straw, and I say that as a blue card member. Raise the price on Mickey Bars to $9 for all I care, but when you start artificially gating how many times I can come to a park that's, I guess coincidentally, on the same property as the property you leased to me as a "second home", it's over. "Welcome home, but not for that long of a stay!" It's almost like that movie where the guy has to maintain a certain adrenaline level or his heart stops, except it's Chapek and if he doesn't maintain a certain profit level, he self combusts.

Just read a blip on another site that Iger & Chapek are no longer in touch about ANYTHING. I had hoped Iger could at least be his Jiminy Cricket for awhile longer to remind Chapek, described as having ZERO "emotional intelligence", that his company was BUILT on emotion AND intelligence. I'm afraid we really are alone in this fight vs RobotMan.

As to the lawsuit, I'd guess Chapek's legal team is happy to gamble- Hoping for a win rather than settle to give in on even a penny.

And if we all dump our DVC, THEY benefit....ROFR & resell whenever depending on their future needs & plans.

None of this 'feels' good.
PS. I'm a shareholder as well. I DO NOT WANT ONE DISNEY DOLLAR if my profit means this company will become unrecognizable in a few years.