Are any Disney guests average income people?

[cdh]

I’m 100% with you regarding my stance on Disney. My issue is not, and has never been, that Disney is expensive. That’s a given. My issue, like yours, is that if I’m going to spend a whole bunch of money, I want to feel like I spent that money on a unique experience. I’m not saying Disney should be cheap, I’m saying that for a lot of people Disney is like a “once in a lifetime” experience and should feel that way if people are going to be spending the money to be there.

In terms of things being different now than in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, etc. - that’s a really broad and deep topic that is probably beyond the scope of this thread. Some things to look at though are wage stagnation, inflation, disproportionately rising housing costs, interest rates and lending practices and job security.

A quick anecdotal example, what was the cost of your starter home(this is a rhetorical question, I don’t expect anyone to answer)? Our starter home cost half a million dollars. That’s a vastly different experience than my parents for example who paid $25,000 for theirs with a $2,000 down payment at something like 2% interest.

I agree with you. All of those factors are a consideration when comparing today to the 60s forward. I know that it probably seems like I’m a little older in my posts but I’m from a conservative area so my values align more toward people a generation older. I’m in my 40s. My new home was ten times as much as my starter home. We really did work our way up. That’s why I get a little frustrated when someone implies that people who make more money are out of touch. I’m not at all angered by it, I just want to point out that for some of us it wasn’t easy to get to this point.

As far as Disney is concerned I‘m starting to think of it as a good relationship that changed into a bad relationship. I really, really want the Disney that I loved to come back but if the new Disney is forever then my family needs to move on. I guess time will tell.

 

[Pickles516]

I agree with you. All of those factors are a consideration when comparing today to the 60s forward. I know that it probably seems like I’m a little older in my posts but I’m from a conservative area so my values align more toward people a generation older. I’m in my 40s. My new home was ten times as much as my starter home. We really did work our way up. That’s why I get a little frustrated when someone implies that people who make more money are out of touch. I’m not at all angered by it, I just want to point out that for some of us it wasn’t easy to get to this point.

As far as Disney is concerned I‘m starting to think of it as a good relationship that changed into a bad relationship. I really, really want the Disney that I loved to come back but if the new Disney is forever then my family needs to move on. I guess time will tell.

I’m with with you. 8 years ago I was literally homeless. My intention was never to state or imply that someone is out of touch simply by virtue of doing well financially. I was stating that if you hold the belief that making your own coffee and bringing your own popcorn to movies will provide an Avenue to a Disney vacation for a working class family, then you are out of touch. I still believe that, but I meant no offense.

 

[cdh]

I’m with with you. 8 years ago I was literally homeless. My intention was never to state or imply that someone is out of touch simply by virtue of doing well financially. I was stating that if you hold the belief that making your own coffee and bringing your own popcorn to movies will provide an Avenue to a Disney vacation for a working class family, then you are out of touch. I still believe that, but I meant no offense.

I understand and I agree. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will never be able to afford a Disney vacation. It’s not even a consideration for them. However, there are also some that spend their discretionary income on things other than Disney. One cup of Starbucks isn’t ever going to add up to a Disney vacation but some do have Starbucks everyday and they go out to the movies, out to dinner frequently, buy designer clothes, etc. Those things, when all added together over a year, could equal a vacation. No judgment from me, they are free to do what they want with their money but the truth is that some people could make different choices and go to Disney. Again, sadly a lot of people won’t be able to go regardless of making sacrifices. My hope is that most will be able to work hard, make small sacrifices, and have a bright future.

I also mean no offense in my response and I’m so glad that you are in a better situation than eight years ago.

 

[josa3279]

I’m with with you. 8 years ago I was literally homeless. My intention was never to state or imply that someone is out of touch simply by virtue of doing well financially. I was stating that if you hold the belief that making your own coffee and bringing your own popcorn to movies will provide an Avenue to a Disney vacation for a working class family, then you are out of touch. I still believe that, but I meant no offense.

I understand and I agree. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who will never be able to afford a Disney vacation. It’s not even a consideration for them. However, there are also some that spend their discretionary income on things other than Disney. One cup of Starbucks isn’t ever going to add up to a Disney vacation but some do have Starbucks everyday and they go out to the movies, out to dinner frequently, buy designer clothes, etc. Those things, when all added together over a year, could equal a vacation. No judgment from me, they are free to do what they want with their money but the truth is that some people could make different choices and go to Disney. Again, sadly a lot of people won’t be able to go regardless of making sacrifices. My hope is that most will be able to work hard, make small sacrifices, and have a bright future.

I also mean no offense in my response and I’m so glad that you are in a better situation than eight years ago.

Well to jump in here Salf777 said "many years ago" and "of course prices were cheaper back then" I dont see where they ever said that would work now? See the difference here is I applaud someone who went from being homeless to someone who is on a Disney board discussing Disney and apparently either goes or is planning or thinking to go and has the financial resources to do so, rather than insult someone who did the same thing??? And seriously if you dont know that calling someone "out of touch" can be offensive than this is not a discussion. Sounds a little self righteous to generalize people but I wish Pickles516 nothing but the best because I came from a poor family and are by no means wealthy and know what that takes, I just dont judge people for their opinions, but I mean no offense!

 

[MillauFr]

That’s why I get a little frustrated when someone implies that people who make more money are out of touch. I’m not at all angered by it, I just want to point out that for some of us it wasn’t easy to get to this point.

I'm not sure if "out of touch" is the right phrase but we live in Seattle and there is far too many people here with money burning a hole in their pocket. I don't think the people here have any clue how most of the country is struggling to get by. It would be far better if our countries' wealthiest people weren't so concentrated in a few big cities.

 

[buffy71]

An average income family living in Manhattan makes about $500k per year. So yes they can afford Disney

That isn't average income in majority of the US. Not even close.

 

[cdh]

Well to jump in here Salf777 said "many years ago" and "of course prices were cheaper back then" I dont see where they ever said that would work now? See the difference here is I applaud someone who went from being homeless to someone who is on a Disney board discussing Disney and apparently either goes or is planning or thinking to go and has the financial resources to do so, rather than insult someone who did the same thing??? And seriously if you dont know that calling someone "out of touch" can be offensive than this is not a discussion. Sounds a little self righteous to generalize people but I wish Pickles516 nothing but the best because I came from a poor family and are by no means wealthy and know what that takes, I just dont judge people for their opinions, but I mean no offense!

It sounds like alot of us on this thread started out struggling financially and worked hard enough for long enough to have a better financial situation than we had when we were younger. I think that people in this situation really know the value of money and we hate being overcharged. Maybe thats why so many of us find this situation with Disney so frustrating.

 

[tony67]

...

That isn't average income in majority of the US. Not even close.

Not sure how accurate that 500K is - but also consider their expenses are extremely high - making 150K in NY is tough to live on - or at least it was PRE-COVID - enough of my friends had moved there thinking making an extra 60K was worth it - and it was not.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

It sounds like alot of us on this thread started out struggling financially and worked hard enough for long enough to have a better financial situation than we had when we were younger. I think that people in this situation really know the value of money and we hate being overcharged. Maybe thats why so many of us find this situation with Disney so frustrating.

Indeed.

When I was a kid, We lived in an apartment on a street nicknamed trash can alley. My parents then moved us to a slightly less crappy apartment, then a house, then another house with horses. They split, my mom bought a townhouse she still lives in today.

I left home at 16, lived on various couches, then under a bridge, in a tent, saved for a truck and lived in that, shared a house trailer with 6 other people, then a handful of apartments, each a bit better than the next. I was 26 when I met my wife. She came from a bit of money but wasn't loaded. We got a decent 1 bedroom apartment for a few years, saved to buy a townhouse, and last year sold that to buy our house currently valued at just about $750,000.

I've literally been homeless, dirt poor, middle class, and kind of upper middle class throughout my life. And I've been going to Disney since I was 4. I make way more than I ever did in the past but I have no intentions on visiting Disney as much as I once did because of principal and declining value.

Can I afford it? Yeah. Am i willing to pay it? Not really. Maybe once in a while. If i wasn't in my current financial situation I wouldn't even consider it though.

 

[MillauFr]

That isn't average income in majority of the US. Not even close.

I never said that it was. But making $500k and living in Manhattan you be stuck in a cramped condo. As opposed to a low cost area you could afford to by a nice 4 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood even if you were making < $100k. However when they go to Disneyworld they both pay the same prices.

 

[MillauFr]

I think that people in this situation really know the value of money and we hate being overcharged. Maybe thats why so many of us find this situation with Disney so frustrating.

When I wake up and find many of the Disneyworld dining reservations 60 days out are full at 3:05a PDT 5 minutes after they are released Disney is under charging if anything. Demand for Disney is far outstripping supply. How can you claim they are overcharging people. I agree charging $1000 a night for a small hotel room at the Grand Californian at Disneyland seems outrageous but someone must be filing those rooms. I'm sure the place is full.

 

[josa3279]

Indeed.

When I was a kid, We lived in an apartment on a street nicknamed trash can alley. My parents then moved us to a slightly less crappy apartment, then a house, then another house with horses. They split, my mom bought a townhouse she still lives in today.

I left home at 16, lived on various couches, then under a bridge, in a tent, saved for a truck and lived in that, shared a house trailer with 6 other people, then a handful of apartments, each a bit better than the next. I was 26 when I met my wife. She came from a bit of money but wasn't loaded. We got a decent 1 bedroom apartment for a few years, saved to buy a townhouse, and last year sold that to buy our house currently valued at just about $750,000.

I've literally been homeless, dirt poor, middle class, and kind of upper middle class throughout my life. And I've been going to Disney since I was 4. I make way more than I ever did in the past but I have no intentions on visiting Disney as much as I once did because of principal and declining value.

Can I afford it? Yeah. Am i willing to pay it? Not really. Maybe once in a while. If i wasn't in my current financial situation I wouldn't even consider it though.

This is a TRULY WONDERFUL story! I would venture to say we are probably, as well as many others here, from the same generation who grew up this way.
I wasnt fortunate enough to go to Disney until later in life and thats when I got the Disney bug!
Im sure since you went at 4 your family made some financial sacrifices to take you but Im glad you didnt mention that or some people would say your "out of touch" LOL (please note that was not in any way a derogatory comment directed at you in any way! Some people just make some comments on these boards that are so rude I couldnt resist!)

 

[Pickles516]

...

Not sure how accurate that 500K is - but also consider their expenses are extremely high - making 150K in NY is tough to live on - or at least it was PRE-COVID - enough of my friends had moved there thinking making an extra 60K was worth it - and it was not.

It’s not accurate at all. Average in Manhattan is like 65k which is still above national average.

 

[cdh]

When I wake up and find many of the Disneyworld dining reservations 60 days out are full at 3:05a PDT 5 minutes after they are released Disney is under charging if anything. Demand for Disney is far outstripping supply. How can you claim they are overcharging people. I agree charging $1000 a night for a small hotel room at the Grand Californian at Disneyland seems outrageous but someone must be filing those rooms. I'm sure the place is full.

IMO they are over charging and hiding charges.

For example, a couple of years ago we went to California Grill and for three of us the bill was around $200 including the gratuity. We always leave an extra $50 on the table but thats a different story. Now, the same meal is $270 before tax and gratuity. You have to read the fine print to realize that the gratuity is no longer included. The meal that was just over $200 a couple of years ago would be $360 now. I’ll never be convinced that steak went up that much.

The Halloween and Christmas parties have increased in price and the number of hours you get in the park has decreased. It isn’t just that price has increased….maybe that would be ok….but you are getting less time and paying more.

They almost always had room discounts in the past. Now it’s full rack rate. A couple of years ago I paid around $560 per night for a club level room in the Contemporary. Now it’s $730 for a room that isn’t club level. The same rate for a club room is just under $1000 per night. The same room for five nights costs $2475 more than it did the last time I visited. They’ve increased the prices of all of the resorts in the same manner.

I’m not saying that people won’t pay it. I have no idea of what the future holds but based on history I feel that they are over charging.

 

[Pickles516]

IMO they are over charging and hiding charges.

For example, a couple of years ago we went to California Grill and for three of us the bill was around $200 including the gratuity. We always leave an extra $50 on the table but thats a different story. Now, the same meal is $270 before tax and gratuity. You have to read the fine print to realize that the gratuity is no longer included. The meal that was just over $200 a couple of years ago would be $360 now. I’ll never be convinced that steak went up that much.

The Halloween and Christmas parties have increased in price and the number of hours you get in the park has decreased. It isn’t just that price has increased….maybe that would be ok….but you are getting less time and paying more.

They almost always had room discounts in the past. Now it’s full rack rate. A couple of years ago I paid around $560 per night for a club level room in the Contemporary. Now it’s $730 for a room that isn’t club level. The same rate for a club room is just under $1000 per night. The same room for five nights costs $2475 more than it did the last time I visited. They’ve increased the prices of all of the resorts in the same manner.

I’m not saying that people won’t pay it. I have no idea of what the future holds but based on history I feel that they are over charging.

This is my thinking exactly. Inflation is one thing, inflating prices while actively removing value is another.

 

[MillauFr]

I’m not saying that people won’t pay it. I have no idea of what the future holds but based on history I feel that they are over charging.

So when the owner of this 0.09 acre property in Seattle that was appraised at $2.4m by the county charged a developer $7.8m were they over charging? Should they have accepted a lower offer? Why would anyone charge less than people are willing to pay?

King County Department of Assessments: eReal Property

 

[cdh]

Should they charge less than people are willing to pay? Maybe not but how long will people be willing to pay? There are quite a few people on this board that are brand loyal to Disney. We want to support Disney and even we are saying enough is enough. Right now, some have trips that they’ve already paid for and can’t get refunds and some have tickets that they have to use because they are non refundable. Those will only last for so long. Another factor is that a lot of people who weren’t affected by covid received stimulus money. Some of those who didn’t need it saved it for vacation (not implying anything political just stating a fact). That is only going to cause increased demand for so long. The same is true for the monthly child allowances that are being provided. I think the we may see a decrease of demand in the spring because in previous years some people used their income tax refunds for a vacation. Now they are getting some of that money monthly and their refunds will be much smaller. That will probably impact spring and summer vacations.

Another issue is that they play around with the system. You can look for a room for one night and it will show no availability. Then you can look for a room for three nights and nearly everything on property is available. Same with the dining. Look for a dinner reservation and you may find nothing. Change your search to 6:30 and you’ll find lots of available restaurants. I’m not saying that’s the case with your dates but it does happen quite a bit.

I feel like I may be vilified for mentioning the stimulus money and tax refunds. I’m not saying people should or shouldn’t get the money. I really don’t have time to think about all of that. I’m just saying that some who are getting it were getting by just fine without it and now they have more discretionary money than they did before. Some of them are using it for vacation. No judgment, just a fact.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

When I wake up and find many of the Disneyworld dining reservations 60 days out are full at 3:05a PDT 5 minutes after they are released Disney is under charging if anything. Demand for Disney is far outstripping supply. How can you claim they are overcharging people. I agree charging $1000 a night for a small hotel room at the Grand Californian at Disneyland seems outrageous but someone must be filing those rooms. I'm sure the place is full.

I'm going to repost this quote, primarily because it's rewording/recontextualizing something I posted several pages back.

This is the "problem". Their is simply too much demand for the product, with not enough supply. Unfortunately, to increase supply is a major major capital/resource intensive investment. You simply can't just build another Walt Disney World. Even the other international parks/Disneyland aren't anywhere near the same scale as WDW.

There are 3 major economic variables at play. Demand, Supply, and Price. Demand is high, supply is low. The only way to bring them to equilibrium is by raising the price. If they leave the price too low while the demand is so high, all while their is an inability to increase supply, the CEO would and should be fired as they are not acting on their fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders.

I dont think anybody is suggesting that the price increases will reduce demand. The question is, will it reduce demand to the point where demand outweighs the supply? We all have opinions, but keep in mind, that all of the evidence that are driving those opinions is anecdototal. It's your personal feelings mixed with a small sample size of posts of people here, Facebook groups, or our small social circles. Unless you are working in the exec levels of WDW, it's unlikely that you have access to the analytical data that are driving price changes.

At the end of the day, only time will tell.

 

[CBMom01]

I think your reply is leading people to make assertions. Your opinion is certainly valid and welcome but see I look at the other guys post like this. A cup of Starbucks is what $5 now so two people giving up one Starbucks a day is $10 a day saved. Then they go out to dinner once less a week that’s let’s say $50 a week saved those 2 small things works out to $6250 a year. That’s a decent Disney trip for 2 people in my mind. Unless I’m out of touch too. You comment was honestly rude and condescending. You called them out of touch instead of saying hey I disagree with you and here’s why. I’m happy to hear anyone’s point of view and from what the other guy said I can think and say yeah I could see how he could save over $6000 a year very easily if he wanted to. Then I read your comment with no explanation and I think wow that guy is in a bad place and not happy with his life

I don’t know any working people who spend $60 pp/week extra on coffee and eating out that could just divert that money into Disney. For the majority of people I know….they can either do both or neither.

Feels like that growing inequity is what people really feel.

 

[CBMom01]

Should they charge less than people are willing to pay? Maybe not but how long will people be willing to pay? There are quite a few people on this board that are brand loyal to Disney. We want to support Disney and even we are saying enough is enough. Right now, some have trips that they’ve already paid for and can’t get refunds and some have tickets that they have to use because they are non refundable. Those will only last for so long. Another factor is that a lot of people who weren’t affected by covid received stimulus money. Some of those who didn’t need it saved it for vacation (not implying anything political just stating a fact). That is only going to cause increased demand for so long. The same is true for the monthly child allowances that are being provided. I think the we may see a decrease of demand in the spring because in previous years some people used their income tax refunds for a vacation. Now they are getting some of that money monthly and their refunds will be much smaller. That will probably impact spring and summer vacations.

Another issue is that they play around with the system. You can look for a room for one night and it will show no availability. Then you can look for a room for three nights and nearly everything on property is available. Same with the dining. Look for a dinner reservation and you may find nothing. Change your search to 6:30 and you’ll find lots of available restaurants. I’m not saying that’s the case with your dates but it does happen quite a bit.

I feel like I may be vilified for mentioning the stimulus money and tax refunds. I’m not saying people should or shouldn’t get the money. I really don’t have time to think about all of that. I’m just saying that some who are getting it were getting by just fine without it and now they have more discretionary money than they did before. Some of them are using it for vacation. No judgment, just a fact.

If people spend extended unemployment in ways they might have spent lost wages then it’s working as intended. The idea of stimulus is to keep the economy from collapsing.