What About Your Lifestyle/Habits Saves You Big $$$ ?

[MrsPete]

Size one diapers are 10 cents each, but size 5 are 20 each.

Older babies also don't go through as many diapers as new babies, so it kinda works out evenly.

Could you explain the environment concerns? Yes one used soap and water to watch diapers, but isn't that the same as every other piece of clothing that one wears. What happens to the billions of disposable diapers?

Yes, disposable diapers are an environmental concern, but water scarcity is an environmental concern too -- we went through a 5-6 year drought about a decade ago, and I still think about conserving water. Yes, all clothing has to be washed, but cloth diapers add to the total.

You way overestimate the cost of cloth diapers. The cloth diaper store near me had a package for $200 that was everything you needed to diaper a child.

Everyone I know who uses cloth diapers uses the fancy-snap-shaped type diapers, and I believe that $200 would be enough for a start, but I don't believe you'd make it all the way to training pants without buying some additional diapers. Even if you don't need larger sizes (which would be pretty unusual), some of them are going to be ruined, stained so badly you want to replace them, or lost.

You'd also assumed buying disposables on sale, but didn't assume the same for cloth.

Okay, that's fair.

You also didn't include the cost of disposing the disposables ... Everyone I knew that used disposables had an expensive contraption to stick the diapers into, and it also used special plastic bags.

We just threw them in the trash. I don't remember it being a big issue.

Yes. He "retired" at 30 from his regular job, even before their first child was born. He still worked after that but doing what he enjoys. His money keeps making him more money and then the blog helped him to rake in more.

It's admirable that he retired so young /so wealthy. He had a lot of things go his way (born smart, chose a lucrative career, parents put him through college), and he made good choices /maximized his finances at every turn.

I quit reading his blog because 1) he's a potty mouth, and 2) the people on his message board are quite cruel and put down anyone who doesn't "toe the party line".

He's a multi-millionaire...so yes, he can be self-insured for some things for sure.

I agree that someone with his money can self-insure, say, his house. If his house were to burn to the ground tomorrow, buying another /filling it with furnishings wouldn't even be a blip on his financial radar.

However, the thing about skipping the dentist is just not smart. No matter how much money you have, you can't "get back" your healthy teeth, and -- as other people have pointed out -- no amount of money could make up for discovering you have a big problem /massive consequences that would have been easy to cure a couple years ago.

We have 5 kids, so going out can get expensive. Every year we buy memberships for all the places we tend to go (aquarium, science center, zoo, trampoline place, children’s museum etc.). The memberships are typically as much as one visit plus another $40-50 or so. So we get a years worth of visits to various places for just about the cost of one visit.

When our kids were small, we used to buy a membership to the zoo one year /the science museum the next year. Alternating years worked out great.

Another way this saves: your membership can give you free reciprocal visits to other zoos, museums, etc. -- we used to always check the list when we were traveling.
Similarly, read the marketing that comes in your various bills; for example, a credit card we used to have gave us free entrance to certain museums one or two days a month. We got free entrance to the county fair with our property tax bill one year.

 

[808blessing]

We used to buy Science center membership and then used it with the Passport program so that when we traveled it lets you (and usually your immediate family) into other partner centers around the world. Loved it. Sounds like PP did that too.

Also I can attest to cloth diapering. We bought a bunch of fancy diapers but not too many. Around $200. Didn’t need anything else. It was a lot of getting used to it but I don’t regret it. Even looked into a service for a bit but didn’t want to pay. Washed maybe 2 loads a week and my daughter potty trained lightning fast. Cloth wipes too. I cut them from hand me down baby blankets etc. Never needed any creams.
We also breastfed and did baby led weaning which basically means she didn’t eat baby food. It just made sense to me on other levels, not just financial.

 

[QueenIsabella]

We used to buy Science center membership and then used it with the Passport program do that when we traveled it lets you (and usually your immediate family) into other partner centers around the world. Loved it. Sounds like PP did that too.

Also I can attest to cloth diapering. We bought a bunch of fancy diapers but not too many. Around $200. Didn’t need anything else. It was a lot of getting used to it but I don’t regret it. Even looked into a service for a bit but didn’t want to pay. Washed maybe 2 loads a week and my daughter potty trained lightning fast. Cloth wipes too. I cut them from hand me down baby blankets etc. Never needed any creams.
We also breastfed and did baby led weaning which basically means she didn’t eat baby food. It just made sense to me on other levels, not just financial.

Breastfeeding is great, but it's not for everyone, and generally requires a real commitment on the mother's part. I had 4 kids, but never produced a lot. I ended up bottle feeding the oldest, breastfeeding the middle two, then had to supplement with #4. So, I've done it all, and I can attest that, while it's not difficult, breastfeeding isn't for everyone. OTOH, I made all my own baby food. I'm cheap. I also knew what was in it. And I found it very easy to make--puree stuff in the food processor and freeze it in little servings.

I mostly used disposable diapers, but had a stack of cloth ones for burp cloths. Kid #2, I would have to do a load of laundry, just for burp cloths, he spit up so much. I would pick up odd cloth diapers at yard sales or thrift stores--style didn't matter. I still have a few of them that I use for cleaning wipes--my oldest "baby" will be 26 next month!

 

[808blessing]

Way to reuse those cloths!! Agreed, breastfeeding is not an easy thing nor for every baby so not recommending for others. I had a lot of things to juggle and needed a “mentor” as we had some issues at the very beginning. Just reflecting on lifestyle changes that also happened to be the less expensive route.

 

[dez1978]

Speaking of washers, my husband returned our brand new washer and looked for an traditional model spinner. He insisted they will last longer than the new models. So I’m living it up in the old school (while cleaning the lint trap often).

Wait.... The washing machine has a lint trap too??? My Samsung front loader had a drain on the front that I had to drain occasionally, but my new Maytag does not.

Also, have him look into Speed Queen washing machines. They are made in the USA, and have 25 yr warranties, and they make them with very simple dials and such instead of the digital boards that are the thing now. I looked at them, but ended up getting a Maytag with the impeller bc it had a larger capacity which I need having a king size bed.

 

[dez1978]

We used to buy Science center membership and then used it with the Passport program so that when we traveled it lets you (and usually your immediate family) into other partner centers around the world. Loved it. Sounds like PP did that too.

Also I can attest to cloth diapering. We bought a bunch of fancy diapers but not too many. Around $200. Didn’t need anything else. It was a lot of getting used to it but I don’t regret it. Even looked into a service for a bit but didn’t want to pay. Washed maybe 2 loads a week and my daughter potty trained lightning fast. Cloth wipes too. I cut them from hand me down baby blankets etc. Never needed any creams.
We also breastfed and did baby led weaning which basically means she didn’t eat baby food. It just made sense to me on other levels, not just financial.

When I was pregnant with our 1st 10 years ago, my husband suggested cloth diapering, bc he'd watched/read something that made it sound super easy and so much cheaper than disposable ones. I quickly vetoed that idea. 1, bc at that point he'd only done maybe 5 loads of laundry in the 12 years we'd been together, so I knew who'd end up washing them, and 2, he works out of town and at that point was gone days, sometimes weeks at a time so most of the parenting stuff fell on me anyway. I knew I was going to breastfeed, and only because I am so stubborn, did I manage to do that for a full year lol. I figured breastfeeding was my contribution to saving $ and the environment and all that. And thats only if you don't assume time is worth money bc I spent 2 hrs a day pumping at work just to get the milk he'd need the next day on top of the time spent nursing him. I did always stock up when diapers were on sale tho and think my avg cost was around .08 per diaper except for the few months he wore pull ups at night.

Funny story. I worked in a prison when both my kids were born. for my 1st, I had a cubicle office. Like 7 ft tall walls and a door, thats it. You could easily stand in a chair and peek over the top. My "office" was in the captains office, so there was always people in there. Sometimes just a couple, other times 10 or more. There wasn't a nursing moms room then so I just pumped in my office. And let me tell you just how loud those pumps can be. Thankfully I am not easily embarrassed or shy lol. I ended up making a sign with a dairy cow that said do not disturb that I put on my door when I was pumping so no one would just come in. But it never stopped people from standing on the other side of the door asking questions or carrying on a full blown conversation with me. A few times someone would pop their heads over the top of my cubicle just to mess with me lol. Yes, I know, that would be totally unacceptable for most people in most places, and most would throw a fit if that happened to them. Didn't bother me at all, bc we were all inappropriate most of the time, and 90% of the conversations the group of us had would get us fired at most places. Also, you couldn't really see anything anyway. But the very funniest thing that ever happened was one of the Captains was just so squeamish about breastmilk, like comically so. So one day one of the other women in the office and I decided to prank him. I put regular milk in one of the bags I used for my pumped milk. She said "hey, I am out of coffee creamer, I've heard breastmilk is really sweet. Can I try some in my coffee?" Sure! She poured some in her coffee, stirred and took a big swig. He was over at his desk trying not to gag. It really was quite hilarious.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

When I was pregnant with our 1st 10 years ago, my husband suggested cloth diapering, bc he'd watched/read something that made it sound super easy and so much cheaper than disposable ones. I quickly vetoed that idea. 1, bc at that point he'd only done maybe 5 loads of laundry in the 12 years we'd been together, so I knew who'd end up washing them, and 2, he works out of town and at that point was gone days, sometimes weeks at a time so most of the parenting stuff fell on me anyway. I knew I was going to breastfeed, and only because I am so stubborn, did I manage to do that for a full year lol. I figured breastfeeding was my contribution to saving $ and the environment and all that. And thats only if you don't assume time is worth money bc I spent 2 hrs a day pumping at work just to get the milk he'd need the next day on top of the time spent nursing him. I did always stock up when diapers were on sale tho and think my avg cost was around .08 per diaper except for the few months he wore pull ups at night.

Funny story. I worked in a prison when both my kids were born. for my 1st, I had a cubicle office. Like 7 ft tall walls and a door, thats it. You could easily stand in a chair and peek over the top. My "office" was in the captains office, so there was always people in there. Sometimes just a couple, other times 10 or more. There wasn't a nursing moms room then so I just pumped in my office. And let me tell you just how loud those pumps can be. Thankfully I am not easily embarrassed or shy lol. I ended up making a sign with a dairy cow that said do not disturb that I put on my door when I was pumping so no one would just come in. But it never stopped people from standing on the other side of the door asking questions or carrying on a full blown conversation with me. A few times someone would pop their heads over the top of my cubicle just to mess with me lol. Yes, I know, that would be totally unacceptable for most people in most places, and most would throw a fit if that happened to them. Didn't bother me at all, bc we were all inappropriate most of the time, and 90% of the conversations the group of us had would get us fired at most places. Also, you couldn't really see anything anyway. But the very funniest thing that ever happened was one of the Captains was just so squeamish about breastmilk, like comically so. So one day one of the other women in the office and I decided to prank him. I put regular milk in one of the bags I used for my pumped milk. She said "hey, I am out of coffee creamer, I've heard breastmilk is really sweet. Can I try some in my coffee?" Sure! She poured some in her coffee, stirred and took a big swig. He was over at his desk trying not to gag. It really was quite hilarious.

 

[tzolkin]

Agreed, breastfeeding is not an easy thing nor for every baby so not recommending for others. Just reflecting on lifestyle changes that also happened to be the less expensive route.

I breastfed for years and people often assumed I was of a certain judgmental mindset about various baby/parenting things. Nope, I was just cheap and lazy. Not having to buy/clean/prepare bottles and formula was wonderful.

We just threw them in the trash. I don't remember it being a big issue.

We did too. But my sister just had a baby shower and the diaper pail she had on her registry was $100. Then you need to buy the bags for it. So I could see where using premium disposable diapers and the accessories to go along with it would add up.

 

[FQLover]

I used a regular old, non-fancy Diaper Genie ($25 at Target now). The bags were not expensive. I could not get away with using non-branded diapers. They leaked. I ended up finding that Huggies fit best and held the best for my daughter. I stayed with diapers rather than pull-ups as they held overnight much better.
None of it is cheap, but time is money, too, and as an only parent, I had enough laundry to keep up with, haha! I was able to ditch the formula much sooner than the diapers, obviously, and not having to pay for both was a relief.

 

[dez1978]

I breastfed for years and people often assumed I was of a certain judgmental mindset about various baby/parenting things. Nope, I was just cheap and lazy. Not having to buy/clean/prepare bottles and formula was wonderful.


We did too. But my sister just had a baby shower and the diaper pail she had on her registry was $100. Then you need to buy the bags for it. So I could see where using premium disposable diapers and the accessories to go along with it would add up.

Yep! Especially in the middle of the night. Idk that the tradeoff was always worth it tho. Pumping is a lot of work and is time consuming. But I found lots of ways to make that easier too. I had a 35-40 min drive to work so after I'd drop them off at daycare, I'd set myself up and pump on the way to work. It's much easier than you'd think, I promise lol. I always wondered what would happen tho if I were to get pulled over, what the cop would think

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I breastfed for years and people often assumed I was of a certain judgmental mindset about various baby/parenting things. Nope, I was just cheap and lazy. Not having to buy/clean/prepare bottles and formula was wonderful.


We did too. But my sister just had a baby shower and the diaper pail she had on her registry was $100. Then you need to buy the bags for it. So I could see where using premium disposable diapers and the accessories to go along with it would add up.

New parents get sucked into buying so many things they probably wont use. I had a coworker who listed 3 different types of infant bathtubs on her registry. I told her (in a nice way, I think) that with my kids we only used the infant tub until the cord was healed and was happy to move on to our regular bathtub. She went on and on about how important all 3 were. I was dying to ask her later if she she really used all 3 but didn't want to sound snarky. That is the point that I felt like a veteran and that new moms are so naive and overbuy. Babies don’t care as long as they’re clean, fed and loved.

 

[DLgal]

New parents get sucked into buying so many things they probably wont use. I had a coworker who listed 3 different types of infant bathtubs on her registry. I told her (in a nice way, I think) that with my kids we only used the infant tub until the cord was healed and was happy to move on to our regular bathtub. She went on and on about how important all 3 were. I was dying to ask her later if she she really used all 3 but didn't want to sound snarky. That is the point that I felt like a veteran and that new moms are so naive and overbuy. Babies don’t care as long as they’re clean, fed and loved.

We used the infant tub for at least 6 months, inside the bathtub, until the babies could reliably sit up on their own.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I breastfed for years and people often assumed I was of a certain judgmental mindset about various baby/parenting things. Nope, I was just cheap and lazy. Not having to buy/clean/prepare bottles and formula was wonderful.


We did too. But my sister just had a baby shower and the diaper pail she had on her registry was $100. Then you need to buy the bags for it. So I could see where using premium disposable diapers and the accessories to go along with it would add up.

If a pregnant or new mom asks my opinion about breastfeeding, I say to consider trying it for 3 weeks. If, after 3 weeks, you're miserable--give up. You tried. You have nothing to prove. Or, you might find that it's not so difficult, you don't mind it so much, etc. Then, save the money. New moms feel so much pressure--I think it's important to let them know that they can decide what's right for them, and not get judged. I point to my oldest, who I wasn't successful breastfeeding--she's now almost 26, working, well-adjusted, and has a 4.0 in her master's program. So, I don't think the formula hurt her. My BFF put it best--she has 5 kids and worked nights as a nurse. She said, "My kids need a sane mother more than they need a couple extra IQ points!"

For diapers, it really depends on both the brand and the baby. I know my oldest did best in Huggies, but #2 did better in Pampers/Luvs. Girl vs boy, maybe? Also, generics have improved significantly through the years--even if a brand didn't work for one kid, it's worth a try for the next one.

 

[barkley]

cloth diapers.........................

we gave it a try when our oldest was born in '94 but two issues brought it to a speedy end-

1. my child could slither out of a cloth diaper like a snake from it's skin. we had experienced cloth diaper users who insisted they could get it on so she couldn't get it off but still that peanut (5 # 7 ozs full term) could slither out of them, and

2. due to both dh and i working ft with long commutes the only reasonable way to facilitate cloth was to use a diaper service. thing was, despite a container that was remarkable in containing the odor-the neighborhood outdoor male cats COULD detect the odor and when we would leave the container on the porch for pickup the cats would make a beeline for it and spray away

 

[dez1978]

New parents get sucked into buying so many things they probably wont use. I had a coworker who listed 3 different types of infant bathtubs on her registry. I told her (in a nice way, I think) that with my kids we only used the infant tub until the cord was healed and was happy to move on to our regular bathtub. She went on and on about how important all 3 were. I was dying to ask her later if she she really used all 3 but didn't want to sound snarky. That is the point that I felt like a veteran and that new moms are so naive and overbuy. Babies don’t care as long as they’re clean, fed and loved.

I never registered or wanted a wipe warmer. I ended up with 3! Never used one of them. Kid #1, I got lots of crap we didn't really need bc I thought we would need it. Ended up buying things later I needed that I didn't think I would. Kid #2, everything is used lol.

One thing that has saved a TON of $ is between my sister in laws fam and ours we have 4 boys from age 12 to almost 7. The youngest are only 4 months apart. So most of the clothes make it thru all 4 boys. Its been great! Getting into an issue now tho that my 7 yr old is bigger than my 10 yr old and wears husky sizes so we have to buy those and those are certainly not a deal lol. We've shared shoes, strollers, all kinds of things. For awhile it was great bc as her oldest would outgrow stuff she'd give it to me and by the time the next summer rolled around (or whichever season) my oldest would be into it. Then we had 3 years where my oldest would grow out of something at the same time my youngest grew into it. Sadly we've pretty much ended that as they've hit different growth patterns. Now there is a couple of years between when her oldest grows out of things and mine can wear it. My youngest is pretty much the same height as his older brother but weighs 20 lb more, which is odd bc they are both very active and eat the same stuff. So now my youngest passes clothes up to his brother, which the older one HATES!

 

[shawthorne44]

I told her (in a nice way, I think) that with my kids we only used the infant tub until the cord was healed and was happy to move on to our regular bathtub.

We were poor when we had DD and this nearby place had this batch of baby stuff they would give you if you went through all their baby classes. I was a nervous, first time mom, and I wanted the classes and that baby bathtub. At about 6 months we switched to using the real bathtub and I really regret not doing it sooner. I'd fill the bath all the way and get in with her. She'd float while I held her head. She'd go so relaxed. It is a being-in-the womb feeling for babies. When my arms were tired I'd call to DH to get her. He'd wrap her in a big towel and snuggle with her. She'd still be all relaxed and happy. The best part is that then *I* would get a bath. A mom of a baby getting a bath! Only problem was that baby-bath temp is colder than adult-bath temp. So when I was with her, it would be a tad chilly.

 

[dvcgirl67]

When I was pregnant with our 1st 10 years ago, my husband suggested cloth diapering, bc he'd watched/read something that made it sound super easy and so much cheaper than disposable ones. I quickly vetoed that idea. 1, bc at that point he'd only done maybe 5 loads of laundry in the 12 years we'd been together, so I knew who'd end up washing them, and 2, he works out of town and at that point was gone days, sometimes weeks at a time so most of the parenting stuff fell on me anyway. I knew I was going to breastfeed, and only because I am so stubborn, did I manage to do that for a full year lol. I figured breastfeeding was my contribution to saving $ and the environment and all that. And thats only if you don't assume time is worth money bc I spent 2 hrs a day pumping at work just to get the milk he'd need the next day on top of the time spent nursing him. I did always stock up when diapers were on sale tho and think my avg cost was around .08 per diaper except for the few months he wore pull ups at night.

Funny story. I worked in a prison when both my kids were born. for my 1st, I had a cubicle office. Like 7 ft tall walls and a door, thats it. You could easily stand in a chair and peek over the top. My "office" was in the captains office, so there was always people in there. Sometimes just a couple, other times 10 or more. There wasn't a nursing moms room then so I just pumped in my office. And let me tell you just how loud those pumps can be. Thankfully I am not easily embarrassed or shy lol. I ended up making a sign with a dairy cow that said do not disturb that I put on my door when I was pumping so no one would just come in. But it never stopped people from standing on the other side of the door asking questions or carrying on a full blown conversation with me. A few times someone would pop their heads over the top of my cubicle just to mess with me lol. Yes, I know, that would be totally unacceptable for most people in most places, and most would throw a fit if that happened to them. Didn't bother me at all, bc we were all inappropriate most of the time, and 90% of the conversations the group of us had would get us fired at most places. Also, you couldn't really see anything anyway. But the very funniest thing that ever happened was one of the Captains was just so squeamish about breastmilk, like comically so. So one day one of the other women in the office and I decided to prank him. I put regular milk in one of the bags I used for my pumped milk. She said "hey, I am out of coffee creamer, I've heard breastmilk is really sweet. Can I try some in my coffee?" Sure! She poured some in her coffee, stirred and took a big swig. He was over at his desk trying not to gag. It really was quite hilarious.

Haha! That's funny! Man, I could tell some stories from my nursing days. I worked with a woman who was also an RN who was just hysterical and a master prankster. This was about 20 years ago, and most of the pranks for sure would have gotten her fired these days. But...it was fun to work with her.....never knew what she was going to pull next. I was trying to think of one that I could somehow relay on this board, but nope, I'd get points and end up in time out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We do drive older cars (mine is a 2002, my husband's is a 2010) although we're in the market for a new vehicle. Whether we get rid of my husband's car or not that opinion varies at the moment lol. But having gone car shopping over the weekend they are having some real issues with cars that have chips in them due to the shortage. One of the dealerships said they normally have 400 cars on the lot and they only had 25. And every dealer we went to was having the same issue. One of the cars we were going to look at (a Palisade) the guy had just sold his last one 4 hours prior and didn't know when he get another one in (though he took our info down). So those looking for new cars may run into issues. We were hoping to buy late this year to attempt to get a good deal since the new model year would be out but we may not have that happen due to car shortages. Cars are selling, dealers just can't get replacements quick enough right now.

For going down to 1 car there's a lot more into it than some have made it out to be. You really have to look at your own individual situation and the pros and cons to it. Not every state has property tax (or it's not costing someone much with the car(s) they own), insurance costs vary wildly, where you live can determine how much wear and tear you have on a car, where you work may mean you're way far away from each other, lack of public transit to fill a gap, and other factors that may arise. I'm all about savings and looking for places to cut things out but they have to make sense to a family to do that and it won't always make sense here to drop to 1 car.

I'm a clearance queen. I go straight to the clearance section of any place I'm in. Not everything is the best deal on clearance but it's my place to start. My husband has def. embraced that. Not that he didn't buy in clearance before but he upped his interest after being with me for a while.

I've always been a library lover since I was a kid so I never looked at it from a cost-savings measure but it def. can be. There are enough movies (even though we love going to the movies the $15 AMC membership we pay for easily pays for itself) that I know I can wait and get it from the library. I may have to wait a few months because of demand but I'm fine with that. eBooks are great money savers too with the library systems in my area.

The pandemic did help us on some things. We learned to get 2 loaves of bread and freeze one for later usage and we really kept up with freezing chicken and beef broth and pasta sauce which we use all the time. We do freezer meals too and had done that before the pandemic though we ebb and flow with how much we keep up on that.

We're not really brand-oriented. Some things here and there trial and error on we've found we prefer name brand or a particular brand but not much. Most of what we buy is store brand (especially great value and ALDI), we don't want a particular car because it's this company (we're more looking at safety, usability, warranty, price, and features than needing a Benz just to have a Benz for example), clothing is the same we don't care if it comes from X store or is Y brand.

 

[dez1978]

Haha! That's funny! Man, I could tell some stories from my nursing days. I worked with a woman who was also an RN who was just hysterical and a master prankster. This was about 20 years ago, and most of the pranks for sure would have gotten her fired these days. But...it was fun to work with her.....never knew what she was going to pull next. I was trying to think of one that I could somehow relay on this board, but nope, I'd get points and end up in time out.

I kind of miss those days. Like I for the most part understand it, but man, that made work so much more enjoyable. At least it did for our group. But I know thats a "know your audience" type of thing. It was always a nice break from a really stressful job to have a good laugh, even if it was at your own expense.

 

[dez1978]

One of the dealerships said they normally have 400 cars on the lot and they only had 25. And every dealer we went to was having the same issue. One of the cars we were going to look at (a Palisade) the guy had just sold his last one 4 hours prior and didn't know when he get another one in (though he took our info down). So those looking for new cars may run into issues. We were hoping to buy late this year to attempt to get a good deal since the new model year would be out but we may not have that happen due to car shortages. Cars are selling, dealers just can't get replacements quick enough right now.

We just ran into this too. The particular car I want, there are currently 7 of them available in the who country and it's not even like a fancy named car, like a Porsche. Its just a GMC. If I want this particular vehicle, I'll have to order it and I likely won't do that bc its much harder to get a deal. On the other hand tho, my trade in is much more valuable right now. Never before could I have taken a leased, over mileage vehicle and "made money" on it. The residual on my lease was 23k. The trade in value is 29K right now. Heck my husbands truck, I can find a bunch of them listed for sale for only about 9k less than what we paid for it new 2 years ago. and it's got 70K miles on it. Granted, I found an amazing deal on his truck, but still.