I'm not sure what their financial status is, but to address the meals issue.... I wonder if they would bristle at meals on wheels because charity. My small city has multiple meal delivery services that aren't outrageously priced. Many services started to provide meals to aid with fitness or weight loss, but others are just offering locally made meals from scratch. I have subscribed to one of the services at times when work was crazy and I wanted to make sure I kept eating good food when I didn't have time to prepare it for myself.
Dealing and Caring for elderly parents... Health concerns.... Needing some guidance...8/14 update
- Thread starter LovesTimone
- Start date
Pink Partridge
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2016
She can refuse all she wants. Let her. But I would not be at a rude woman's beck and call no matter what her age. She does not appreciate your help and makes your lives a living hell? No way would I be running to her. I would arrange services and if she wants to refuse them, that's on her. What is her alternative?
You have every reason to vent.
We went thru alot of this stuff with my inlaws. My mil had Alzheimer, my fil was her caregiver, ended up having a brain tumor, never got therapy because he felt my mil was more important. They wouldn't let any nurse, meals on wheels, etc into their house. They would start screaming at these poor people.Even if we were at the house, it just didn[t work. Then my mil passed away, It broke my fil. He refused to stop driving, he refused help. He stopped taking care of himself and the house and bills. He had a seizure in a gas station, they sent him to the hospital. That was the first time we were allowed to intervene and luckily his doctor was agreeable. We were able to place him in a home and keep him on his meds and safe. Its a long road and a rough one.
mumto3girls
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
Vent away, OP! I hear you and have similar issues. I don’t have any good ideas for either one of us, but it does sound like the meals is a good place to start. I do think broaching the subject of meals/assisted living/other services is helpful. I call it “planting a seed” and it is what I do with my dad. I will just tell him something along the lines of—I know you’re not ready for this yet, but this is what is available, and I think you may need to consider this at some point, and this is why I think it would be good and when you are ready I will help you—My dad will often come back to whatever it was and have questions. It might be a week or months, but it gets him thinking. I will say my dad is a very reasonable person and always has been though. My mom is much more difficult and always has been. She has Alzheimer’s and so far he is caring for her at home. She never wanted to be put in a nursing home and he is trying to respect her wishes, but I am planting seeds because at some point he won’t be able to continue.
elder abuse goes both ways. in your case every one of the caregivers is protected under elder abuse laws-
What is Elder Abuse? Elder abuse is an intentional act or failure to act that causes or creates a risk of harm to an older adult. An older adult is someone age 60 or older.
i don't know what each of the siblings health is like but if i were one of THEIR kids i would be very concerned about them being endangered trying to care for my elderly grandparents. i can't imagine the physical and mental stress on a 71 year old to be providing 12 hours per day of care for 2 incapacitated 90 somethings. even if 'grandma' refuses help for herself someone needs to take into consideration the toll and risk of harm this arrangement has on the caregivers. getting a professional in to evaluate the situation may reveal the endangerment of the caregivers who CAN choose to find outside help.
take care of yourselves.
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2011
I would write a letter explaining your concerns and include a copy of your medical POA. The medical POA only comes into play if they are considered unable to make appropriate decisions for themselves, but if you are on-point and mention specifics - hopefully the doctor will then use that letter to guide discussion with your parents. I wouldn't try a phone call, it's only likely to get you a nurse at best, who may make some notes but unlikely to "talk" to you about anything. Written provides the documentation for the doctor to start a discussion. It may still take a few visits (I don't know how often they go), but at least it's there in your words.
Several years ago now my parents moved to an independent living facility with attached assisted living. It has been wonderful to know there is help when needed -- changing a lightbulb, hanging a painting or picture, setting up the cable tv, housekeeping service, daily meal, etc. Good luck to you!
2China2009
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2007
The responses have been spot on. 26 years as a nurse and now working in long term care. As people age their attitudes change for the worse. It will take an emergency situation to land one of them in the hospital etc and then you will let them know they are not going back home and will be moving into assisted living. You have that power and authority to do so. It will not be their decision at all. You are seeing a big decline and things will fall like dominoes when this time comes. After they are moved into AL. Then the family can get a dumpster and clean out the house and then sell it. The proceeds will then cover their care. One thing I would be looking into is to make sure the AL bridges over to long term care so they do not have to move twice. My mom will be 74 so not the ago of your parents, but in the Last few years she has gotten so defensive and rude I can not be around her. I have a brother and sister and we all agree when she can no longer take care of herself we will have to move her out of her home. We love her dearly, but do not want to be responsible for personal and hygiene cares.
AST
AST
NotUrsula
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2002
You are correct that doctors cannot really talk to you about your parents' medical issues -- but they can listen.
The simplest way to have that happen is to write a separate letter (one for each of them) that can be placed in the chart, so that anyone speaking with them or treating them will be able to see it and ask them appropriate follow up questions. Don't make it too wordy; use bullet points that are easy to take in quickly.
(With all due respect, your posts here are rather rambling, and that's fine for here. If that is your usual writing style, then write the doctors' letter out in your normal style, but before sending it, go back over it carefully and ruthlessly edit it until you are down to the most important points. Long letters will not help the doctors OR your parents, because the medical professionals will not have time to properly read through that.)
The simplest way to have that happen is to write a separate letter (one for each of them) that can be placed in the chart, so that anyone speaking with them or treating them will be able to see it and ask them appropriate follow up questions. Don't make it too wordy; use bullet points that are easy to take in quickly.
(With all due respect, your posts here are rather rambling, and that's fine for here. If that is your usual writing style, then write the doctors' letter out in your normal style, but before sending it, go back over it carefully and ruthlessly edit it until you are down to the most important points. Long letters will not help the doctors OR your parents, because the medical professionals will not have time to properly read through that.)
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nkereina
Last chance to lose your keys.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2009
I don't have any advice, but I feel for your situation. My parents are in their early 70s and in good health, but I know the day will come when I'm in your shoes. I also live 130 miles roundtrip from them, and I'm an only child, so no siblings I can rely on to help. The older they get, the more stubborn they get which leads to them being in denial. I have seen those most significantly with DH's 94 year old grandmother. Its certainly a tough thing to navigate. Best wishes to you!
i would have the documents reviewed by an attorney before i assumed that. it's common for poa/medical poa to only take effect if a person is 'incapable' of making their own decisions. if there is ANY push back on the part of the person-the burden of proof is on the person named to establish incapacity and i speak from personal experience when i say that doctors are not willingly going to deem a person incapable under the letter of the law. the process to have a court do it is timely and costly. if it's not handled correctly and there's someone lurking in the corner with the elderly person's ear it only takes a new poa/med poa easily printable from the internet to be signed/notarized (notaries don't do extensive incapacity evaluations) to invalidate all existing paperwork (i had a family member do this with my mom-we would get stuff straightened out for her care/he would get her to sign a revocation, repeat, repeat...).
'revocable' means unless/until the person is deemed by a legal entity as incapacitated that they can pull those poa's in a heartbeat ( a verbal 'i revoke' to hospital staff will, in my experience, revoke it at least until a higher power makes a legal determination).
disneyseniors
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
It's sad and hard to handle when a loved one refuses the help they need. I know. Sometimes we just Can't help them at all, and that is the most difficult to deal with. You did all you could and that's all anyone can do.
disneyseniors
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
Sounds like you are doing all you can do at this time. When a person signs up for home health care, their Medicare is used for all care: meds, supplies, home health aides, nurses, hospice care, anything medically related. If they decide to not do home health care anymore, the Medicare reverts back to the patient.
I had to kind of laugh when you mentioned the life alert problem
I just left my Mother's apartment and found her Life Alert necklace hanging from her lamp in the living room!!!! I said why is your life alert hanging on the lamp? She said that she only wears it when she goes to the bathroom???? What? So, I explained, again,that she needed to wear it all the time because she just might fall in the kitchen, not the bathroom? So, I know what you are dealing with. It gets very frustrating. And, yes, she has had some falls recently so we got the life alert, a cane, and a walker. All we can do is the best we can do at the time and hope that our elderly loved ones do what it takes to be safe. You are not alone in this
HeatherC
Alas...these people I live with ...
- Joined
- May 23, 2003
It is easy to say that, but much harder to actually do and then sleep good at night. Also, keep in mind, she may not be able to help it. Literally. Her mental status may be impaired and a little empathy does go a long way.
aprilgail
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2001
is there anyway you can move them in with you? My mom is 91 and no way could she live alone for the past 7-9 years so she is with me. I would never put her in a nursing home unless there was no possible other option.
Pink Partridge
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2016
I have a LOT of empathy for the elderly people taking care of this demanding, rude woman that doesn't appreciate what her family is doing for her.
Pea-n-Me
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2004
@disneyseniors I hope you know I laughed at your post not because the situation was funny, but because I could relate! I went through that whole Life Alert thing with my mother, and DH with his father. I had many phone calls with the company and discussions with my mother, ordered all the stuff, it was finally delivered, and she told me to send it back, she wasn't going to wear the thing around her neck, nor did she want to pay the $50/month! 
(This was a lady who gave college age DS a roll of pennies a couple of years back so he would have some spending money! DS still keeps the roll in his memory box.) We had the option of either the bracelet, or the necklace, but the thing was that the bracelet didn't have falls detection, which was the thing she really needed, so she did agree to the necklace initially. The truth was that there was mostly someone always home with her (we have the in-law) with rare exception, but it was one of my siblings who was pushing the idea so Mom tried to go along with it. But the reality was she was never going to wear it, and I knew it. In fact one of the conversations I had with the company rep (not actually Life Alert, but similar) told me their biggest problem is that people don't wear them. I think many do it to appease their children but when they leave, they do what they want! FIL had gotten one but it was in his bedroom when he had a fall in the bathroom. Estimates were that he was on the ground for two hours, and he was lucky to live because his blood sugar was critically low. We have seen patients in the hospital who were on the floor for days. But it is hard to get them to wear the devices. We wound up putting a small bicycle bell on a lanyard and asked Mom to wear it. Still didn't, of course, until she couldn't get up by herself and had to call for help. I have talked to children who have cameras in their parent's houses. For some that might be a better option.
(This was a lady who gave college age DS a roll of pennies a couple of years back so he would have some spending money! DS still keeps the roll in his memory box.) We had the option of either the bracelet, or the necklace, but the thing was that the bracelet didn't have falls detection, which was the thing she really needed, so she did agree to the necklace initially. The truth was that there was mostly someone always home with her (we have the in-law) with rare exception, but it was one of my siblings who was pushing the idea so Mom tried to go along with it. But the reality was she was never going to wear it, and I knew it. In fact one of the conversations I had with the company rep (not actually Life Alert, but similar) told me their biggest problem is that people don't wear them. I think many do it to appease their children but when they leave, they do what they want! FIL had gotten one but it was in his bedroom when he had a fall in the bathroom. Estimates were that he was on the ground for two hours, and he was lucky to live because his blood sugar was critically low. We have seen patients in the hospital who were on the floor for days. But it is hard to get them to wear the devices. We wound up putting a small bicycle bell on a lanyard and asked Mom to wear it. Still didn't, of course, until she couldn't get up by herself and had to call for help. I have talked to children who have cameras in their parent's houses. For some that might be a better option.
HeatherC
Alas...these people I live with ...
- Joined
- May 23, 2003
So sorry. My post was not directed towards you specifically. After re-reading it I realized it may come across that way. I was speaking in general terms in how the elderly can sometimes not help them way they act. Sorry!
Pea-n-Me
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2004
@Loves Timone, I agree you need to get in touch with your parents' PCP about their well being. I would say it that way. You could write a letter or make a phone call, it really doesn't matter. The important thing is alerting their care team to your concerns, which are their safety, their judgement, their non-compliance with recommendations, etc. Documenting these concerns are important, but most important is that YOU, as their caretaker, and the PCP/team, partner together to help solve these issues, as they will be long term and you have to start somewhere. It is time.
I agree with a pp you have to keep things concise whether you write or call, and just start with the top one or two problmes you're seeing with each of your parents. To start. The doctor may have little idea that there are any problems. Once you establish a rapport (and I really don't think it's an issue because you do have medical POA, of course they want to talk to you - very comon), then things will flow a little better. Don't discount talking to the nurse on the team, they're there for a reason and can triage phone calls and problems pretty efficiently. That gives them time to figure things out after you call, and they'll get back to you. I always talked to the nurse first with my mother's PCP, and they were great.
I agree with a pp you have to keep things concise whether you write or call, and just start with the top one or two problmes you're seeing with each of your parents. To start. The doctor may have little idea that there are any problems. Once you establish a rapport (and I really don't think it's an issue because you do have medical POA, of course they want to talk to you - very comon), then things will flow a little better. Don't discount talking to the nurse on the team, they're there for a reason and can triage phone calls and problems pretty efficiently. That gives them time to figure things out after you call, and they'll get back to you. I always talked to the nurse first with my mother's PCP, and they were great.
wombat_5606
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 17, 2006
My heart goes out to you. I walked in your shoes for almost 15 years. I took care, long distance and from the neighboring state (about a 3 hour drive) of my grandfather, at first, and soon after, my Mom. I did this while still trying to raise my own children, one graduating high school and one in middle school. It was physically and emotionally exhausting. Many, many days I wanted to get into my car and just keep driving. Everyone says to take care of yourself, but that is advice that is near impossible when there is no time and no one to help.
You will get through this and it will be hard, but you won't give up, either. Keep asking everyone that you can, for help.
For my grandfather, at the beginning I was able to find someone in his community that spent the day with him, cooking and driving him to activities and appointments. Is that a possibility for your parents? Perhaps ask family of their friends, their church or other social groups they belong to?
Another helpful thing after a hospitalization and a subsequent few weeks of rehab, the team at the rehab did a home visit before they would release him. They were very helpful in making him aware of the things that were not safe for him in his home. Once I presented him with the spreadsheet on those changes, he opted to go into an assisted living facility. Perhaps you can find someone in the community to do a senior assessment, both of their physical needs and their home? Then the suggestions come from those people, not you.
My mother and I had a very contentious relationship for the 10 years that I looked after her and her affairs. She was never happy with what I did and didn't like my "parenting" style, but she did tell me she appreciated it near the end of her life. The stress of dealing with her, I believed, caused some of my health problems. I did have some very frank conversations with her. I think for my physical and mental health, it was necessary. So, continue to speak up for yourself.
Perhaps you can find some help here. https://www.eldercaredirectory.org/state-resources.htm
Hang in there and don't be too hard on yourself. I'm confident you are doing the best you can.
You will get through this and it will be hard, but you won't give up, either. Keep asking everyone that you can, for help.
For my grandfather, at the beginning I was able to find someone in his community that spent the day with him, cooking and driving him to activities and appointments. Is that a possibility for your parents? Perhaps ask family of their friends, their church or other social groups they belong to?
Another helpful thing after a hospitalization and a subsequent few weeks of rehab, the team at the rehab did a home visit before they would release him. They were very helpful in making him aware of the things that were not safe for him in his home. Once I presented him with the spreadsheet on those changes, he opted to go into an assisted living facility. Perhaps you can find someone in the community to do a senior assessment, both of their physical needs and their home? Then the suggestions come from those people, not you.
My mother and I had a very contentious relationship for the 10 years that I looked after her and her affairs. She was never happy with what I did and didn't like my "parenting" style, but she did tell me she appreciated it near the end of her life. The stress of dealing with her, I believed, caused some of my health problems. I did have some very frank conversations with her. I think for my physical and mental health, it was necessary. So, continue to speak up for yourself.
Perhaps you can find some help here. https://www.eldercaredirectory.org/state-resources.htm
Hang in there and don't be too hard on yourself. I'm confident you are doing the best you can.
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Pink Partridge
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2016
I'm sorry too. I sounded snippy. Probably because I have been down this road with elderly people. They can sometimes be very manipulative and quite abusive to their children and grandchildren.So sorry. My post was not directed towards you specifically. After re-reading it I realized it may come across that way. I was speaking in general terms in how the elderly can sometimes not help them way they act. Sorry!
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