Dog Aggression

StitchesGr8Fan

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
I’m going to start by saying I know the worst case scenario, and we are prepared to give the dog back to the breeder.

Our 10 month old male GSD has recently started exhibiting signs of aggression when certain strangers try to pet him. We have young kids. This is not acceptable.

We are getting him fixed tomorrow, and a couple friends, including a vet have said that will help. Has anyone seen positive behavior changes in their dogs after being neutered?
 
They can be a bit skittish if not neutered and at 10 months he is entering his boisterous age. He is still very young. Do you think that his aggression is triggered by fear? Have you tried offering treats , lots of them, when strangers are around, so that he begins to associate meeting people with good things?
 


He may be too old for neutering to work. I trained and showed GSD when I was a teenager (my best friend's mom was a breeder), they are well known for being loyal and protective. I would recommend professional training (not from Petco) with a trainer that has experience with the breed. It's so important to socialize puppies of all breeds, so they learn to be friendly with all sorts of people.

That said, I actually have experience with training an aggressive GSD/pitbull mix. What worked for him was attack training. I know that seems counter-intuitive but I did it on the advice of a well-known trainer in the GSD community, I was fortunate to work for her. We started with attack training, then progressed to Schutzhund for extra practice. It worked wonders for his behavior, he would still occasionally grab people but then he had a release command that worked every time because of all the practicing we did. And when I say "grab" it wasn't a bloody shredding of their arm or face that you get with an untrained dog, it was more of a firm hold that we practiced with Schutzhund. So I ended up with a dog that was still a biter, but it was easier to control after attack training.
 
Well, for future reference, should have gotten a Lab or Golden Retriever. I've never had one that did anything more than bark. For this guy though, see if you can find a trainer that the police take their dogs to. If you re in So Cal I know a great one. We had a dog that died when he dashed out the front door and got hit by a car. We took our now dog to the trainer and left him there when we went on vacation. In a week they had him door-dash trained - he won't step foot through a door unless I tell him it's OK (in fact he'll usually only follow me, even when on-leash). Expensive to be sure, but I've seen them work miracles.
 
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My daughter has a 1 year old German Shepherd who was showing some aggressive behaviors. She found a really good trainer who recommended neutering immediately as that does help. The trainer also breeds shepherds exclusively and has a ton of experience. What we learned is that there are 2 types of German Shepherds with one being the American German Shepherd. The American type has a genetic predisposition to fear aggression. I witnessed it first hand when we took him to the vet to be neutered. Murph was terrified and needed to be muzzled immediately.

Murph is already responding really well to his training. As the hormones get out of his system, it can about 6 months his behaviors should improve even more. A good trainer with experience with the breed can evaluate the dog and see if the behaviors can be changed. Neutering is always a good first step. Wish you luck with your pup.
 
Well, for future reference, should have gotten a Lab or Golden Retriever. I've never had one that did anything more than bark. For this guy though, see if you can find a trainer that the police take their dogs to. If you re in So Cal I know a great one. We had a dog that got died when he dashed out the front door and got hit by a car. We took our now dog to the trainer and left him there when we went on vacation. In a week they had him door-dash trained - he won't step foot through a door unless I tell him it's OK (in fact he'll usually only follow me, even when on-leash). Expensive to be sure, but I've seen them work miracles.

Take it from a formal professional animal trainer and wife of a policeman... K-9 officers are trained VERY differently than you would want to train a family pet. I wouldn’t recommend that at all.

Also know that GSD trainers tend to be heavy-handed. The breed is usually recommended for those with a bit of behavioral experience already. Taking an already aggressive dog to an aggressive trainer could yield disaster. Really try to find someone that uses operant conditioning, ideally positive reinforcement.
 
Before considering giving the dog away I'd want to find out why the dog exhibits issues with certain strangers. It's entirely possible it's a correctable situation.

At my dad's house growing up we had 3 old english sheepdogs (mom, dad and pup from a litter of mom and dad). The pup had a bad instance with animal control 1 time. That 1 time was all it took for his trust in males to plummet. From then on he was really wary of males.

When I volunteered at a local shelter as a teen there was this one small dog seen as quite aggressive however it was aggression towards males. Females could get close and no problems other than normal dog behavior. A male would get close and the dog would go off into crazy town.

Totally not saying that's the issue with your dog but it is interesting that the dog shows aggression towards certain strangers. Even if you do give the dog back it would be helpful to figure that out for any prospective future owners.
 
I talked to the breeder tonight. She is willing to take him back if it comes to that. So now I have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C.

This is hard because I love him and want what is best for him. Please send good thoughts that we can get him past this bump.
 
I've spent over fifty years of my life owning German Shepherd Dogs. I love the breed very much. They're great dogs to have when they're good, and not so great when they're not. A lot of it has to do with how they're handled and trained - it's often more about the owners than the dogs, as, in the right hands, a GSD may not act like that at all because a firm owner would be all over that at the very first hint it could be happening (but more work on prevention in the first place).

German Shepherds are sort of unique in that they're so intelligent and temperamentally strong, that if the owner doesn't completely run the show, then the dog will attempt to take over - his or her way. That is why they're a dog recommended for experienced owners, and rescues may not even consider someone without experience. Nor will they adopt out to homes with young children, or unfenced yards, etc. I've taken heat here over the years for saying that it's not a good idea to let dogs bite hands, or to win at tug of war, where dog is put into a situation of dog vs human, or to let them push past you and do things their way, etc. You can't do that with those dogs. They play games on your terms with you in charge at all times. You have to tell then what they can and can't do. All the time. The other thing is that they have to be exercised a great deal, both of body and mind, in order to let out their working energy.

Now please don't take this as "blaming". I almost didn't post because I was fearful that could happen. That's not my intent. I don't know you or the dog, but I'd like to help if I could, even if it's with understanding how this may have come about and if there's any hope of fixing it. So please take it that way. Above I posted a thread from the GSD forums that should be helpful for understanding. I will also post something else below.

Only you can know your own circumstances and whether you and the others in your household are willing and able to take on what needs to be done to turn this around, which is to take on a whole different way of living and being with this dog, with you completely in charge at all times. This is what you will learn from a trainer/corrective specialist. It won't work for the long haul unless you can follow through. If you can't then it might be better to go with one of your other plans while the dog is still young and before this gets worse. I know it will be heartbreaking for you to let the dog go, but it will be more heartbreaking if something happens and you are liable. Because that's the thing today, having a dog like this is a big liability unless you can keep one that's stable. (And by stable I mean one that's not going to cause harm.) And it often takes work to make one stable. (Although there are a handful that can be natural, friendly goofballs.) If you are working and leaving the dog home a lot, or are distracted with young children, it could be a very tall order to try to make it work safely. I do thing you are very wise to take this seriously now.

I'm pretty sure that what tazdev was talking about above when she said fear aggression is known as reactivity, or being reactive, which is fear based. I follow rescues from all over (been looking to rescue one myself) and so often when you read the stories, there is reactivity there, and it is very hard to live with. (I wouldn't knowingly take it on.) My last Shepherd was a sweetheart but reactive to other dogs, and it was a huge challenge to live with (but we did overcome it with education about it and lots of intervention, both professional and casual). I don't know if this is what's happening with your dog, but it could be. Read about it and see if you think it could be the case. There are things you can do about it, one of them being distraction - the dog has to be looking to YOU at all times for direction, not running of the rails doing his own thing. It takes a lot of work to train your dog to look at you instead of what he's reacting to, but it can be done. Of course, with people, it's more serious because a bite is just a moment or movement away, and you can't have that, especially if there are children, in particular visiting children, in your home. Unless you can be there every second, there could always be a risk. Again, I don't mean to sound doom and gloom, but I've lived this reality, too. One of our dogs (many moons ago) did bite a child and it was awful. That was a dog I had in childhood - as I became an adult I learned how important it was, and how to train, in order to have a stable GSD.

I really HTH. And hope surgery goes smoothly today. My current male dog was neutered four or five years ago and I saw him trying to hump a female in heat the other day at the dog park. (Why someone would bring a female in heat to the dog park is another subject for another day.) It made me wonder about hormones after neutering. Seemed to me there are probably still some floating around the body, perhaps from other organs. (Don't know enough about it off the top of my head and don't have enough energy to look it up today, lol, but thought it was interesting.)
 
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This is from German Shepherd Rescue of New England

https://gsrne.org/gsrne-live/before-you-adopt/
Before You Adopt

Before you get a German Shepherd Dog, you will want to educate yourself on what the breed is like. There are several ways to do this. Begin by reading some of the suggested material right here at GSRNE. Talk to people who own a GSD.
Just as importantly as educating yourself on the breed, you should evaluate the following truthfully:

paw3What you want and expect from a dog as the responsible owner. This includes activity level of the dog. Don’t get a bouncy young dog when you really want a quieter dog that will be content to lie around the house all day with you.

paw3What the rest of your family wants and expects from a dog. This may differ from what you want. Again, consider activity level, size, sex, etc.

paw3What your family members can handle (which is often different from what people think they want!).

We have noted some general characteristics of these beautiful and intelligent dogs below to help you decide if a GSD would be a good fit for your family and your lifestyle.

General Characteristics of a German Shepherd Dog
The German Shepherd Dog (GSD) is a large, active dog with a double coat. This double coat sheds and sheds and sheds and sheds, year round, and produces greater volumes of fur when the dogs “blow coat” in the spring and fall. Some shed more than others, but be sure that your vacuum will become your best friend. For some owners, this is not a trivial point. Being a large dog, expect muddy paw prints in the house every time it rains.

The breed was developed for service as a herding and general purpose working animal. Their desire to “work” or do something is genetic, and is stronger in some GSDs than others. Many GSDs end up in shelters precisely because they are working animals. Their first family really just wanted a couch-potato. Think about this carefully!

Most adult GSDs are handsome, giving, loyal, active, loving, protective and intelligent. Without proper guidance and training, GSDs can be rambunctious, destructive of property, obnoxious, and exhausting to live with. It is up to you to guide your dog to suit your lifestyle and that of your family.

Many GSDs can also become overly protective/territorial if they do not receive the level of leadership in the household that they respect and want to follow. Who is really running the show in your house? Evaluate this objectively. If it isn’t you or your dog doesn’t believe it’s you, then your German Shepherd Dog will assume that responsibility himself, and will run things as a dog will, not as a human being will. (After all, he’s just a dog!) In many instances, the dog way of running the world is NOT how humans would like, and we get calls from owners about overly protective and territorial behaviors showing up and getting out of control. It all has to do with YOU.

Most, if not all, GSDs need training and a structured lifestyle to thrive and become a canine good citizen. Training is not something you do once in an 8 week obedience class…training is teaching. You need to make sure the dog is following your rules for most of the dog’s life!

In addition, your leadership skills are something you will employ all of the time. Clarity, follow-through, fairness, and showing your dog that there are immediate consequences for all actions (good and not good) make all the difference! If you do this kind of thing naturally or work on doing it, owning a GSD can be the most amazing experience of your life. If you don’t want to commit to this level of mental and physical stimulation for your dog, and to this level of leadership bearing that you and your household need to employ as a lifestyle, please check out other more suitable breeds. You won’t be sorry then.

Different types of GSDs look and behave differently, and to some degree, have different needs. Learn about these differences and ascertain what it is you really want from the dog. There are American line dogs, German line dogs, other European line dogs, etc. Many people love the idea of a novelty like a Czech-line dog, but are you really ready to take on a dog like that? Most families are NOT. By researching different types and their general attributes you can make an educated choice about what type of GSD is right for you.

GSDs are known for being an “intelligent” breed. Remember that “intelligent” can be a nice thing in that your dog can learn quickly *if* you communicate with him well. However, “intelligent” can also mean that your dog has a need for physical and mental activity and stimulation, just like an intelligent child does. A bored GSD will often find his own excitement and stimulation, which might include digging, barking, herding small children around, “creating” toys out of household furniture or the children’s toys, etc. GSDs need exercise, socialization, and mental stimulation almost every day to be on their best behavior. Training never stops.
 
Pea-N-Me thank you that was what I was trying to say and you did a much better job than I did. The trainer told my daughter, as did I, that GSD's are an alpha type mentality and need a firm hand at all times so they know who is the boss. I said it's like raising a teenager. The dog will push his limits and you need to be consistent with what they are. I absolutely love my Grandpuppy. He is great with the boys and they love him. He was house broken in a week which amazed me. I fed him a treat one time and now whenever I come over he heads right to his treat can for me to give him one. He gets it as soon as I give him the command to calm down and he responds immediately. They are a great dog when handled properly.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I am taking all the blame for this, and picking at everything I could have possibly done wrong. I grew up with Shepherds, but females, and my husband has had lots of dogs, including Shepherd mixes. I know the good and the bad of the breed. I did research on breeders and raising a puppy for 2!years before getting him. This is my first time dealing with the snapping though. And my first time having a dog this old who isn’t fixed. I am literally in tears and sick over it, and am trying to do what is best.
 
What always amazes me is how GSDs are still the 2nd most common dog breed in the US according to the AKC. I’m not saying they’re a bad breed, but they do have their challenges plus the HAIR. The 1st on the list is labs which makes sense, but then Goldens are 4 after GSDs & beagles. Beagles makes sense too b/c they’re such CUTE puppies & ppl don’t know what handfuls they can be! I asked earlier what color the OPs dog was b/c IME white or black GSDs can be particularly challenging. I’ve never met one that I felt like I could trust.
 
What always amazes me is how GSDs are still the 2nd most common dog breed in the US according to the AKC. I’m not saying they’re a bad breed, but they do have their challenges plus the HAIR. The 1st on the list is labs which makes sense, but then Goldens are 4 after GSDs & beagles. Beagles makes sense too b/c they’re such CUTE puppies & ppl don’t know what handfuls they can be! I asked earlier what color the OPs dog was b/c IME white or black GSDs can be particularly challenging. I’ve never met one that I felt like I could trust.

That's interesting, I had no idea they were that common. I rarely "see" them if that makes sense. I constantly see people out and about with other breeds, but never GSD.
 
That's interesting, I had no idea they were that common. I rarely "see" them if that makes sense. I constantly see people out and about with other breeds, but never GSD.
I don’t see them much here either anymore. I guess b/c it’s so hot & a lot of ppl hunt. Most common purebred that I see here are labs.
 
What always amazes me is how GSDs are still the 2nd most common dog breed in the US according to the AKC. I’m not saying they’re a bad breed, but they do have their challenges plus the HAIR. The 1st on the list is labs which makes sense, but then Goldens are 4 after GSDs & beagles. Beagles makes sense too b/c they’re such CUTE puppies & ppl don’t know what handfuls they can be! I asked earlier what color the OPs dog was b/c IME white or black GSDs can be particularly challenging. I’ve never met one that I felt like I could trust.
You were bitten as a child, weren’t you? I meet lots of GSDs all the time, and there are many who are stable. I wouldn’t go too near one who is not, though. I can usually tell just by their body language.
 

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