This doesn’t sound good (EMH going away?)

[ChipnDale79]

And Disney will start discounting and adding perks once it does happen. Occupancy has been high even as they have pulled back on perks and charged more. They are going to pull back even more to test the waters. That's how tourism driven companies work. You may not like it but its never going to change.

You threw 2010 back at me for evening EMH hour comparisons. We were going through the worst economic situation since the great depression at that time. People were losing their homes as the housing market tanked and adjustable rate mortgages ballooned out of control. The term staycation was created during that time. Disney needed to entice people especially Florida residents to book into their rooms.

I mean, they list those same kind of EMH in 2007, which was prior to the economy collapsing...just tossing that out there.

 

[SaharanTea]

I think there are a few variables at work here.

I think that most will agree, over time, things generally become more expensive. Certainly Disney is more expensive than it was 10 or 20 years ago. That is the nature of the beast.

Some object to the fact that it is getting more expensive.....and certain "free" perks are no longer free, or are just eliminated.

I think what we are seeing is there was a lot of hidden value when you bought a disney vacation package. Services were offered for free as a perk.
Many complained to disney that vacations are too expensive. Disney understands this.
Reality is that many of these "free" perks, are not really free. They are built into the budget that you are paying for your lodging and ticket package. People complain that it costs too much, and I don't go the the emh anyway, why should I pay for them? I don't park here, I don't bring a car, why should I pay for it?
My opinion is they are moving more towards a la cart pricing, pay for what you want, an not for what you won't use.
It's pretty much a shell game. Somebody has to pay for Pandora, SWGE, Toy Story Land, the rat ride, guardians and so on.

If they lowered, froze, or even slowed price increases while making things "a la carte," you'd have a better argument. As it is, general prices are still going up at a faster rate than inflation (the general measuring stick). On top of that, we have to pay extra for many of the things that were once baked in. But now, we see that cost front and center.

Take resort parking. It's not hidden inside an expensive rack rate anymore. It's sitting right next to that expensive rate. It's blindingly noticeable and unavoidable for onsite stays for many people. What did Disney say was the reason for the new fee? Industry standard? Riiiight. It's industry standard for areas where land is scarce and parking is hard to find. That doesn't describe WDW at all.

And Disney isn't paying for parking with those charges. It's creating a new revenue stream. Even at the "cheap" price of $13 per night, per car, it doesn't cost near that to maintain those parking lots.

 

[Hikergirl]

Another site has historical park hours on them. All parks had morning and evening magic hours any given week.
2010 June hours

MK
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 1,3,8,10,15,17,22,24,29
EVENING - June 4,6,11,13,18,20,25,27

epcot
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 6,13,20,27
EVENING - June 1,3,8,10,15,17,22,24,29

DHS
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 4,9,11,14,18,21,25,28
EVENING - June 2,7,16,23,30

DAK
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 2,5,7,12,16,19,23,26,30
EVENING - June 9,14,21,28

Those were the good ol days!
We were not an RD family, we preferred to get to the parks late morning or early afternoon and take advantage of the evening EMH. They worked perfect with our touring style.

 

[cmwade77]

If they lowered, froze, or even slowed price increases while making things "a la carte," you'd have a better argument. As it is, general prices are still going up at a faster rate than inflation (the general measuring stick). On top of that, we have to pay extra for many of the things that were once baked in. But now, we see that cost front and center.

Take resort parking. It's not hidden inside an expensive rack rate anymore. It's sitting right next to that expensive rate. It's blindingly noticeable and unavoidable for onsite stays for many people. What did Disney say was the reason for the new fee? Industry standard? Riiiight. It's industry standard for areas where land is scarce and parking is hard to find. That doesn't describe WDW at all.

And Disney isn't paying for parking with those charges. It's creating a new revenue stream. Even at the "cheap" price of $13 per night, per car, it doesn't cost near that to maintain those parking lots.

My issues boil down to this:

• Disney has always been expensive to stay onsite when you look on the surface, but once you factored in a lot of the perks, it actually was fairly comparable.
• Disney has been raising prices, ok that is to be expected, it happens.
• The problem is Disney has also been making many of the included perks cost extra on top of the price increases, this is where there are issues. One of the reasons we were always willing to pay the higher dollar amount than going elsewhere was because of these perks, they have dramatically scaled them back, yet still want to command the same premium over other venues that they always have. It would be different if they also made their prices comparable to others, but they aren't.

 

[Delirium]

Very well put. And we have no way of knowing if prices would be even higher for everyone if they didn’t have these a la carte options that some ppl don’t mind paying for.

I'm not sure you fully understand how some of your posts come across.

On multiple times you've used the word 'whining' to describe people who are disappointed or upset about losing this perk. The use of the word 'whining' can be construed as talking down at someone. Disappointed and upset are perfectly viable terms to use to describe how someone feels without having the negative connotation.

On multiple times you've used the word 'entitled' to describe people who have expressed displeasure about this. Again, a word laced with negative connotations. Almost everyone, if not everyone, that has expressed disappointment about this has been a loyal Disney customer for many, many years. They have expectations of what 'Disney' means. Being upset because Disney starts charging for overnight parking at their resorts after decades of not doing that is not feeling 'entitled'. The reality is that Disney has no other use for those parking lots. They have always been, and always will be, parking lots. And, Disney probably makes enough money in 2-3 nights worth of parking fees to pay for maintenance of that lot for the entire year. That's not feeling 'entitled'. That's feeling being taken advantage of because they have something we really want, that being the lifetime of memories we get from their parks.

Now, in the post I've quoted, you've used the phrase 'options that some people don't mind paying for'. I hope you do realize that, for a large percentage of Disney guests, it's not that they 'mind' paying for all the extras, it's they can't afford to. Who wouldn't want to experience 3 hours at the end of the night in MK with very few people around. Anyone would. But, the average family of 5 that shelled out a year's worth of savings just to have enough to even afford the basic Disney vacation can't even have a 'less crowded' couple of hours at MK now because of the elimination of EMH. Combined with add-ons they can't avoid, like the parking fees, and the average Disney guest is getting priced out of the special vacation they used to have.

 

[LSUmiss]

I'm not sure you fully understand how some of your posts come across.

On multiple times you've used the word 'whining' to describe people who are disappointed or upset about losing this perk. The use of the word 'whining' can be construed as talking down at someone. Disappointed and upset are perfectly viable terms to use to describe how someone feels without having the negative connotation.

On multiple times you've used the word 'entitled' to describe people who have expressed displeasure about this. Again, a word laced with negative connotations. Almost everyone, if not everyone, that has expressed disappointment about this has been a loyal Disney customer for many, many years. They have expectations of what 'Disney' means. Being upset because Disney starts charging for overnight parking at their resorts after decades of not doing that is not feeling 'entitled'. The reality is that Disney has no other use for those parking lots. They have always been, and always will be, parking lots. And, Disney probably males enough money in 2-3 nights worth of parking fees to pay for maintenance of that lot for the entire year. That's not feeling 'entitled'. That's feeling being taken advantage of because they have something we really want, that being the lifetime of memories we get from their parks.

Now, in the post I've quoted, you've used the phrase 'options that some people don't mind paying for'. I hope you do realize that, for a large percentage of Disney guests, it's not that they 'mind' paying for all the extras, it's they can't afford to. Who wouldn't want to experience 3 hours at the end of the night in MK with very few people around. anyone would. But, the average family of 5 that shelled out a year's worth of savings just to have enough to even afford the basic Disney vacation can't even have a 'less crowded' couple of hours at MK now because of the elimination of EMH. Combined with add-ons they can't avoid, like the parking fees, and the averaged Disney guest is getting priced out of the special vacation they used to have.

We all make choices of how to spend our money. A family of 5 is not average by today’s standards so I’m sure they’re used to making financial sacrifices. So how you’re post comes across to me is that you’re saying I should feel guilty that I choose to enjoy the extras b/c someone with a larger family can’t afford to. There are a lot of things I can’t afford to do that I would like to, but I don’t begrudge anyone else’s desire or ability to do those things. And, I certainly don’t think that they shouldn’t enjoy those things b/c I can’t afford to. That’s where the use of the word entitled comes in. By the same token, there are ppl who can’t afford Disney at all. So if ppl stop going so often then Disney might be forced to lower prices & then they more ppl can afford to go. And, I often make choices when I do pay for the extras to perhaps stay in a cheaper resort or go fewer days to offset my costs. All options available to everyone.

 

[Delirium]

We all make choices of how to spend our money. A family of 5 is not average by today’s standards so I’m sure they’re used to making financial sacrifices. So how you’re post comes across to me is that you’re saying I should feel guilty that I choose to enjoy the extras b/c someone with a larger family can’t afford to. There are a lot of things I can’t afford to do that I would like to, but I don’t begrudge anyone else’s desire or ability to do those things. And, I certainly don’t think that they shouldn’t enjoy those things b/c I can’t afford to. That’s where the use of the word entitled comes in. By the same token, there are ppl who can’t afford Disney at all. So if ppl stop going so often then Disney might be forced to lower prices & then they more ppl can afford to go. And, I often make choices when I do pay for the extras to perhaps stay in a cheaper resort or go fewer days to offset my costs. All options available to everyone.

No one is begrudging your ability to pay for extras. But, be honest, do you LIKE to pay parking fees? Fee income that we all know that Disney does not really need.

But, my main point is on the EMH. Why can't Disney have both? Why can't they have the super exclusive DAH experience for customers that can take advantage of that, while at the same time, continue to have the much less exclusive EMH, which are still valuable to a large percentage of their guests. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

Edit: And, to the point of family size. By taking my 3 kids to Disney, I'm creating more future Disney customers than the family that takes only 1. So, from my perspective, even without paying for add-ons, I'm potentially the more valuable customer for their long term business.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

No one is begrudging your ability to pay for extras. But, be honest, do you LIKE to pay parking fees? Fee income that we all know that Disney does not really need.

But, my main point is on the EMH. Why can't Disney have both? Why can't they have the super exclusive DAH experience for customers that can take advantage of that, while at the same time, continue to have the much less exclusive EMH, which are still valuable to a large percentage of their guests. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

I’m still hopeful that PM EMH at MK returns in January, after party season is over.

In the interim, hopefully park hours on nonparty nights aren’t dismal.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

Based what I am seeing for June, there is a EMH every day at one park and every park has at least one EMH.

Mondays - DAK Morning EMH
Tuesdays - Epcot Evening EMH
Wednesdays - MK Evening EMH
Thursdays - Epcot Morning EMH
Fridays - MK Morning EMH
Saturdays - DAK Morning EMH
Sundays - DHS Morning EMH

Another site has historical park hours on them. All parks had morning and evening magic hours any given week.
2010 June hours

MK
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 1,3,8,10,15,17,22,24,29
EVENING - June 4,6,11,13,18,20,25,27

epcot
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 6,13,20,27
EVENING - June 1,3,8,10,15,17,22,24,29

DHS
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 4,9,11,14,18,21,25,28
EVENING - June 2,7,16,23,30

DAK
Extra Magic Hours
MORNING - June 2,5,7,12,16,19,23,26,30
EVENING - June 9,14,21,28

So if we compare 7 day stretch for both schedules:
2019:
Am emh: 5 hours
Pm emh: 4 hours

2010:
Am emh: 7 hours
Pm emh: 18 hours

There also used to be am emh at the water parks in addition.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

So if we compare 7 day stretch for both schedules:
2019:
Am emh: 5 hours
Pm emh: 4 hours

2010:
Am emh: 7 hours
Pm emh: 18 hours

There also used to be am emh at the water parks in addition.

Don’t forget 6 hours DAH and 6 hours of EMM

 

[Planogirl]

We all make choices of how to spend our money. A family of 5 is not average by today’s standards so I’m sure they’re used to making financial sacrifices. So how you’re post comes across to me is that you’re saying I should feel guilty that I choose to enjoy the extras b/c someone with a larger family can’t afford to. There are a lot of things I can’t afford to do that I would like to, but I don’t begrudge anyone else’s desire or ability to do those things. And, I certainly don’t think that they shouldn’t enjoy those things b/c I can’t afford to. That’s where the use of the word entitled comes in. By the same token, there are ppl who can’t afford Disney at all. So if ppl stop going so often then Disney might be forced to lower prices & then they more ppl can afford to go. And, I often make choices when I do pay for the extras to perhaps stay in a cheaper resort or go fewer days to offset my costs. All options available to everyone.

Why do you feel anything when it comes to this? I'm disappointed by some of this but I rarely even think about what others do. Guilty? Why would anyone want to make you feel that way? It's definitely the last thing on my mind. Collectively, buying extras probably does bump up prices as I've said before but that's an overall effect and IMO Disney's fault.

 

[LSUmiss]

No one is begrudging your ability to pay for extras. But, be honest, do you LIKE to pay parking fees? Fee income that we all know that Disney does not really need.

But, my main point is on the EMH. Why can't Disney have both? Why can't they have the super exclusive DAH experience for customers that can take advantage of that, while at the same time, continue to have the much less exclusive EMH, which are still valuable to a large percentage of their guests. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

Edit: And, to the point of family size. By taking my 3 kids to Disney, I'm creating more future Disney customers than the family that takes only 1. So, from my perspective, even without paying for add-ons, I'm potentially the more valuable customer for their long term business.

I agree. I definitely don’t like things like the parking fees & have said that. As far as EMH & DAH, I am/have been perfectly fine with both. We when used & enjoyed both. My comments have been aimed more at ppl who claim that ppl who like the DAH (which we no longer enjoy since DS is young btw) are responsible for this perk disappearing for them.

I also don’t doubt that you might be a more valuable customer since your family has a potential to create more future park-goers than mine. I have never debated any of that. That’s Disney’s gamble as a company.

 

[LSUmiss]

Why do you feel anything when it comes to this? I'm disappointed by some of this but I rarely even think about what others do. Guilty? Why would anyone want to make you feel that way? It's definitely the last thing on my mind. Collectively, buying extras probably does bump up prices as I've said before but that's an overall effect and IMO Disney's fault.

Tbh, I don’t actually feel guilty b/c I really don’t care. It was rhetorical asking more are ppl supposed to feel guilty about those things. There have been several posts that make it seem this way. Suggesting the ppl who enjoy paying for the extra are the ones hurting their enjoyment of the parks. Implying or even explicitly saying they don’t blame Disney if ppl are willing to pay. Disney is ultimately the one to blame if you (collective) are disappointed with their policies not other guests.

 

[luvsJack]

Tbh, I don’t actually feel guilty b/c I really don’t care. It was rhetorical asking more are ppl supposed to feel guilty about those things. There have been several posts that make it seem this way. Suggesting the ppl who enjoy paying for the extra are the ones hurting their enjoyment of the parks. Implying or even explicitly saying they don’t blame Disney if ppl are willing to pay. Disney is ultimately the one to blame if you (collective) are disappointed with their policies not other guests.

I seriously doubt that anyone literally meant it is the fault of you or anyone else. But the fact is Disney will not continue to offer anything for free if there are plenty willing to pay. That’s just a fact. Not blame on anyone but the company.

I don’t care if I could afford to rent the castle for a year, there is a point when one feels like the word “sucker” appears on your forehead when you enter the gates. I have reached that point.

 

[whiporee]

Fee income that we all know that Disney does not really need

I don't have any idea what Disney needs. But I do know I don't feel comfortable deciding what is an isn't appropriate for them to charge. I know I don't know how the income stream of the company interacts with overall cash position, and I don't know how much income from the parks are a factor in the overall revenue of the company. I don't know what projections have been made, or whose job is on the line for making those projections, or what the overall strategy for upcoming years is.

But I do know I never feel good about telling someone else what they need. Be it a person or a company.

At the root of the complaints here is that Disney makes enough money and they should not want to make more. But to do that, we have to decide what we think is "enough" and then impose it on someone else. We have to insist that they substitute our wants (everything to be fundamentally more enjoyable for us, either through crowds, access or cost) for their own (to be as profitable as they can. Because people's livelihoods do depend on it). And that's just something I'm not willing to request of another person. Or another company.

 

[whiporee]

But the fact is Disney will not continue to offer anything for free if there are plenty willing to pay. That’s just a fact. Not blame on anyone but the company.

But you're making the assumption that if people didn't pay, Disney would offer it for free. I think that if people didn't pay, Disney wouldn't offer it at all. So the question then becomes would you rather have DAH, or no late-night stuff at all?

 

[mom2rtk]

I don't have any idea what Disney needs. But I do know I don't feel comfortable deciding what is an isn't appropriate for them to charge. I know I don't know how the income stream of the company interacts with overall cash position, and I don't know how much income from the parks are a factor in the overall revenue of the company. I don't know what projections have been made, or whose job is on the line for making those projections, or what the overall strategy for upcoming years is.

But I do know I never feel good about telling someone else what they need. Be it a person or a company.

At the root of the complaints here is that Disney makes enough money and they should not want to make more. But to do that, we have to decide what we think is "enough" and then impose it on someone else. We have to insist that they substitute our wants (everything to be fundamentally more enjoyable for us, either through crowds, access or cost) for their own (to be as profitable as they can. Because people's livelihoods do depend on it). And that's just something I'm not willing to request of another person. Or another company.

I think the 24%+ margins they have been reporting in the parks seems more than adequate.

 

[luvsJack]

But you're making the assumption that if people didn't pay, Disney would offer it for free. I think that if people didn't pay, Disney wouldn't offer it at all. So the question then becomes would you rather have DAH, or no late-night stuff at all?

But we had late night stuff. We had p.m. EMH in the MK. And we didn’t pay for it.

 

[PolyRob]

I am curious to see if the AM MK EMH extend lands starting in October with the removal of PM EMH. Adventureland and Frontierland are excluded from AM EMHs whereas they are/were included with PM EMHs.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think the 24%+ margins they have been reporting in the parks seems more than adequate.

Do you scrutinize every company that way? What about giant corporations like Proctor & Gamble & Phillip Morris who make the majority of everyday products.