Child Drowns at Art of Animation

[Tom P.]

I am going to refrain from commenting on the "who is responsible/could this have been prevented" aspect, and simply say that my prayers go out to all concerned.

 

[ELSA711]

It always amazes me how judgemental people can be when someone loses a child in an accident.

My heart breaks for the family. May God heal them as only He can.

 

[BagOLaughs]

It's a message board we are supposed to discuss such things. If we all just said "My condolences to the family" this thread would be boring.

I whole hearty disagree with this. There's a difference between airing ones opinion/discussing an accident and pointing fingers. Blaming the parents when actually know one on these boards knows what really happened is wrong.

To quote from one of my own posts:

'However the reason I've pulled out your post is because if the way you worded it. I think its misleading if you use a statement such as "why was the child left alone" = assumption. Rather than, "I wonder if the child was left alone." = question'

 

[ELSA711]

It's a message board we are supposed to discuss such things. If we all just said "My condolences to the family" this thread would be boring.

Well if boring = compassionate, I'd rather be boring
But everyone has a right to their own opinion, I can still be amazed by it

 

[LeeAndRobin]

It's a message board we are supposed to discuss such things. If we all just said "My condolences to the family" this thread would be boring.

Still waiting for you to explain why you found the "how to spot a drowning person" website inaccurate....

 

[Dfan79]

Still waiting for you to explain why you found the "how to spot a drowning person" website inaccurate....

Ridiculous, we aren't talking about an 8 yr boy. We are talking about a toddler. Every video that you people can dig up as evidence has a child in it, not a baby. Babies should not be left alone. I suppose you blame the dingo in the movie "A Cry in the Dark" for eating the baby rather than it parents.

 

[Carrie Gruber]

i saved a toddler from the Typhoon wave pool. He entered with other big kids, which i figured were his siblings. I didn't believe that kid had any business going into the pool, so i watched. Then the bigger kids branched off and the little 2 year old kept going into the wave pool. I went towards him to grab him but he had already went under the water 2 times and almost 3 but i snatched him. His mom came running as i pulled him out. No CM's noticed or came to help at any point. My regret is not running to get him sooner. In college, i was studying to be a teacher, and they drill you about how to never touch someone's kid, so that made me hesitate until i knew the kid was in danger.

Where were the lifeguards?? Disney should always have someone on staff.. i think they can afford it in their budget and it could have saved him. If they did have one, they obviously need more, like how about someone is always in the middle area, the lifeguards could take turns.

First of all, thank you for stepping in to assist that little boy, despite your initial hesitation. You were his guardian angel that day! I think that's what a lot of people's feeling is - that it's not their child or they'll get in trouble - and they think twice before stepping in. I completely understand that standpoint in most situations, but when it's a matter of safety, I think most parents would be grateful for someone stepping in to help (that's just my opinion, I'm sure there are other parents who would say otherwise, but I just want to make it clear that it's my opinion.) And I'm not saying that as a guest you need to be responsible for every child in your line of sight, either. We stayed at AoA in 2013 and are going again in October, and I know how crazy crowded that pool is, especially in the evenings. I don't recall how many lifeguards were on duty when we were there at night, but I (personally) don't rely on them too heavily. Disney will most definitely be reconsidering their lifeguard policies following this tragedy. This thread has shown many different viewpoints and opinions, and it's given everyone food for thought.

 

[jerseygal]

Haven't there been incidents in the past year or so with children drowning on cruises because there were NO lifeguards? I think because of this, isn't DCL the first cruise line to put lifeguards at their pools on cruises? THANK GOODNESS for that! IMO, NO PUBLIC POOL should be without lifeguards trained in CPR!
Is not a replacement for parents diligence and care, but a GREAT STEP in the right direction for cruise line pools!
THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS for the family, friends, and lifeguards who underwent this SAD tragedy.

 

[pookadoo77]

I know from being in public safety that the ratio is 1 guard to 15 kids, I am sure that there was way more people in the pool for that ratio. I know this to be true for the ymca pools. A few posts back someone said there were 3 guards walking and 1 sitting. I am sure there were more than 60 people in the pool. Was Disney neglect? I am sure disney will change there pool policy over this. Poor family.

That was me. Here are some pics I took at the pool about a month ago around 8-9pm. They also had a movie going on in the front corner near the Animation Hall. Note the crowds and low light, these were taken with flash. We moved along to the spray play because I felt unsafe with my 10 & 11 y.o. there. There were plenty of life vests for use between the spray play and pool area as far as general safety goes. I know my 10& 11 y.o. liked being able to use their bands to open the room & pool gate. Maybe making the pool gate as a certin age and up would help prevent future accidents, not that that played a part in this tragedy. Just thinking what may make this area safer in the future.

 

[ParrotBill]

SueM thanks for finding those videos I referenced. The first and second are the same I had seen; the third one I had not seen and is even more terrifying since it's from the point of view of the Lifeguard. I am glad I stopped doing lifeguarding. Too stressful.

The value of this discussion is for those participating and anyone you talk to about it because of this. Active oversight, constant attention and super-vigilance are the key to prevention around a pool. You can't let it be "that moment" you turned around or took your eyes off your child. If they are runners, this is the time you are a runner too. You CAN make a difference at a public pool until the age where you gulp and make that hard decision to let them be their own safety net.

The wave pool and the dark water lake are the two worst situations. Get in the water, and be next to your children. In clear calm water, sit on the edge with your eyes on children 100%. If you are trading off with other adults make sure the adults know the rule and you have positive handoff "I am watching the children now" until relieved.

If your child does not know how to swim, never, never, did I say never, ever send them into deep water on a float. Not even with a life jacket. That is asking for a drowning. A non swimmer goes into deep water only to learn to swim, only in your arms and at your arm's reach.

Sames goes for a water slide folks. Non swimmers should not be on water slides. If they cannot swim at the bottom, a life jacket is not enough. You should not be catching at the bottom (exception: the little kiddie slide). They go on the slide when they are ready and able to swim. Over the last 20 years, at the bottom of the slides at Disney's hotels I have reached out and given my arm to a hundred children who were not ready to be there yet.

 

[ParrotBill]

Haven't there been incidents in the past year or so with children drowning on cruises because there were NO lifeguards? .

I would not use the words "because there were no lifeguards," but you covered it in what you said about parents.

There is no such thing as a pool without lifeguards if you, the parent, are present. when a teen is ready to be responsible for their own safety, then swimming with a buddy means they are each other's lifeguard.

I have been to WDW and on Cruises many times. In my opinion, cruise ships are a special case of parenting negligence. There is a very high percentage of parents who seem to think the ship is one giant babysitter. The kids running unattended, in the pools, and acting unsafe is one of those "you have to see it to believe it." These parents are busing socializing and drinking. The cruise ships don't make it any easier by having very little chair capacity next to the pool. So as a parent you must get up and sit at the edge of the pool. With 20 kids in the pool, how many parents at the edge typically? zero to 4. I cannot stand near the kids pool without getting outraged. I have been known to follow a child to find their parents (100 feet away) to politely tell them their child was jumping into the pool on top of other children. Most resent being told this as it calls out their parenting and they know it. Some are thankful and realize what they were doing wrong. I keep doing it because it might save a life.

 

[old lady]

What I don't understand is what the parents were doing at the time? If they had several children maybe, but to find the child's body after a couple of hours. If I were the parents would have told the lifeguards or the life guards, I would have clean the pool and dive in to find a child.

 

[TwoMisfits]

Wasn't gonna respond...but...

A kid's drowning is everyone's fault at the pool - the kid, the lifeguard, the parents, and every other person at the pool who could have seen the act that led to the drowning and didn't stop it.

I almost drowned at 4 - I ran away from my mom (who had 2 littler kids in the baby pool) and went down the deep water slide (before any guard could stop me) - a nice guard pulled me up and I had a fear of water for 5 years (literally learning to swim fast with my head out before I ever put my head it - this helped me later). Then, I got to be a total swimmer and spent 6 years lifeguarding through my teens and early 20s...and learned the #1 rule - the lifeguard needs to be proactive and "ruin the fun" before "fun gets ruined permanently" each and every time. I never had to make a save at my home pool, since I would yell at a small child anytime I saw them "break away" from a parent. You would be amazed what an authoritative voice to a 2 year old (knowing they are misbehaving) will do to them - they will freeze and "usually" not jump in (usually giving a grown up time to grab them). And, back in the day, I have thrown out tipsy parents/other adults for the day - once you have too much alcohol, you are a danger to yourself and others and you have no place at my pool (taking up the lifeguard's time worrying if you'll try to dive into 2 feet of water or fall in the pool when you can't walk straight takes away time that the guard can watch the small kids and the poor swimmers). If you couldn't make that call, I did it for you (breaking multiple pools rules and slurring your excuses back to me was a tell tale sign)...And to the person who says a 3 year old could never outrun a parent - you obviously have not been around 3 year olds, especially boys. A kid on a dead run will beat a parent having to get up from a pool chair every single time (unless someone or something makes the kid pause). So, if the lifeguard isn't making them pause, someone else needs to.

But I did have to make water saves in my life, when I wasn't on the job. At 2 different water parks (one Disney and one local), one in a wave pool and one after a water slide into a pool, I had to pull out kids. And even as an adult now, I will intervene in any situation I see that's dangerous (and will also ask if people are okay and/or where are your parents). It takes a village and I never want it on my conscience that I was at a pool and did nothing when I saw something dangerous. A guard saved me, but there won't always be a guard to do that for everyone...

 

[JJZMgailey]

Many posts have been removed from this thread in order for it to remain open.

Insensitive and/or accusatory posts will not be tolerated here due to the nature of this horrific tragedy.

 

[quagmire0]

There's certainly not enough information publicly available to blame anyone at this point. But jumping on the parents right away for not having their child locked to them is a bit silly. Kids can get away from you, it happens - ESPECIALLY when you have multiple kids. Based on the various stories, it almost sounds like the child got away from them and then was later found at the pool. So, it's very possible they were somewhere else and the child took off and then ended up finding the pool and drowning. In any event, it's a horribly tragic event that I pray I never have to experience myself.

 

[Polydweller]

There's certainly not enough information publicly available to blame anyone at this point. But jumping on the parents right away for not having their child locked to them is a bit silly. Kids can get away from you, it happens - ESPECIALLY when you have multiple kids. Based on the various stories, it almost sounds like the child got away from them and then was later found at the pool. So, it's very possible they were somewhere else and the child took off and then ended up finding the pool and drowning. In any event, it's a horribly tragic event that I pray I never have to experience myself.

This incident is so tragic and heart rending and quagmire0 you have stated it precisely. There is very little known.

The sum total information is a boy age 3 drowned, his family was visiting from NY, he got separated from his family and was found in the pool. That's it, there's nothing more. No evidence that the family was swimming at the pool or even. No evidence of the parents doing anything wrong.

People saying anything other than the limited facts known are simply stating their conjecture which is not helpful. What we know is that this is a very tragic situation and there is a set of parents that have an unfillable hole in their lives and emotions, grief, guilt and emptiness that will be with them forever. What's needed now is concern and compassion for the unbearable situation they face, not unfounded recriminations.

 

[BagOLaughs]

but to find the child's body after a couple of hours.

Where did you read this? I don't think this was the case. If you're stating this as fact with out evidence than it is misleading.

A kid's drowning is everyone's fault at the pool - the kid, the lifeguard, the parents, and every other person at the pool who could have seen the act that led to the drowning and didn't stop it

The one problem I think with this paragraph is that you're making a good point, we should all look out for one another, but those videos show that not everyone knows what to look for when someone is drowning. As for the life guards - the pools get so crowded and I'm sure the lifeguards on duty that day have taken this accident hard.

You say "could have seen the act" and I suppose that's just it. Maybe no one saw it.

 

[Dfan79]

I am incredibly paranoid when my kids are near water and knowing what to be looking for is so eye opening. I helicopter like crazy near water but it just takes a single minute.

So very sorry for that family. Heartbreaking.

That shows that you're intelligent and a good parent. Because that's what most people would do if they have very young kids.

But of course there are also many bad parents in the world, who let their kids do whatever they want. I saw a kid at Epcot kick a duck and his parents just stood there unabashed with goofy looks on their faces. It took a female stranger to say something to the boy and tell him what he did was wrong.

 

[mcd2745]

That shows that you're intelligent and a good parent. Because that's what most people would do if they have very young kids.

But of course there are also many bad parents in the world, who let their kids do whatever they want. I saw a kid at Epcot kick a duck and his parents just stood there unabashed with goofy looks on their faces. It took a female stranger to say something to the boy and tell him what he did was wrong.

And there seem to be a lot of parents out there who are probably very good, very attentive parents 90% of the time. But for some reason, when they are on vacation (be it at WDW, DCL or even other cruise lines) they seem to think they are also on vaction from being a parent. I see it all too often. I don't know if they think nothing like this can happen "inside the Disney bubble" or what it is, but it seems all too common.

 

[Dfan79]

But for some reason, when they are on vacation (be it at WDW, DCL or even other cruise lines) they seem to think they are also on vaction from being a parent. I see it all too often. I don't know if they think nothing like this can happen "inside the Disney bubble" or what it is, but it seems all too common.

Exactly, I see people letting their children run wild every time I go vacation. They could burn down the resort and the parents wouldn't know it. They'd just be sitting there sipping their martini's while the flames grow higher.

This little girl came up to me and started having a conversation with me near the pool. She had to be 4 or 5 years old and her parents were no where to be found. I was nice to her of course, but what if I was weirdo who collects human skulls.