Idea to improve DAS

[cmwade77]

I'm assuming that's a DL thing since I've never experienced a FP line that long?

No, I have had that with a GAC at WDW. I don't know about the new system there, perhaps they have fixed it.

But at it is worse at DLR, as there are only 13 attractions that have FP. One is down for refurbishment. About 6 of them have you using another entrance besides FP or have significant delays if you can't do stairs.

Leaving 6 rides that you return through FP at DLR. And this is assuming that FP is running on all 6 of the attractions. Most of the time, FP is only running on about 3-4 of these attractions. Which means for the vast majority of the attractions, you will not be entering through the FP queue or if you do, there will be significant delays.

By significant delays, I mean 20+ minutes. In most cases it's 45+ minutes.

Now not every attraction will have that massive of delays, but many will, which means the system is not equal at DLR and since they want it to work the same on both coasts, there needs to be a solution that does makes everything as equal as possible and works on both coasts.

 

[cmwade77]

Thanks. I wrote them down so I don't have to go searching back here someday!

No problem, that is current as of the last time I went to each about a month ago. But just remember, as with all theme parks it's subject to change without notice, so call and ask before going if it is that much of a concern, as I would hate to get there and have something changed without knowing about it ahead of time.

One of the positive things about this new system is Disney is being more open to how their system works and that is spilling over to other parks as well. It used to be super difficult to get any information in advance, now it's a lot easier.

 

[curemyreed]

No one is taking away the use of FP's...you can still use the with the DAS.

The FP system is being replaced by FP+. This is a significantly different system as it now stands. We tested it on our last trip. The restriction to 3 FP's, all in one park, and having to use the 3 FP's on 3 different rides made for much less successful touring. We had to use DD's GAC card a lot more often than previous trips. With the original FP system we would arrive at rope drop and grab FP's as we go in order to lessen the need for GAC use. My daughter doesn't have the cognitive ability to understand most of what is said to her or about her. But I do. When we were fortunate enough to take a mother-daughter trip one year we were subjected to a woman making loud, rude comments about us as we waited in the FP line using DD's GAC. It was upsetting and brought me to tears. I didn't (don't) want to chance that again on vacation, so I worked hard to work out strategies to minimize the need for accommodations. This involves getting up to be at rope drop, no matter if it is still dark out! And using FP's so as not to add unplanned for numbers of guests to the FP line by entering it with GAC. The combination of the GAC-to-DAS system changes along with FP system changes makes for a much different vacation for us---not in a good way.

 

[curemyreed]

No problem, that is current as of the last time I went to each about a month ago. But just remember, as with all theme parks it's subject to change without notice, so call and ask before going if it is that much of a concern, as I would hate to get there and have something changed without knowing about it ahead of time.

One of the positive things about this new system is Disney is being more open to how their system works and that is spilling over to other parks as well. It used to be super difficult to get any information in advance, now it's a lot easier.

Yes, good reminder to confirm before we go.

I have a question for you. Or rather I wonder what your thoughts are. Surely Disney studied the various systems used at other theme parks to accommodate disabled guests. If so, they would have become aware of the Universal Studios Hollywood system that is similar to what you are proposing. I wonder why they thought the system they implemented is better? Now that I understand your/Universal's system I am convinced it would eliminate some of the problems the new DAS system has. I wish Disney could have foreseen this better.

 

[mjh2901]

I watched the new system in disneyland. First of all the old system was so abused it was getting insane. Because of ADA requirements Disney can not require proof. What I see as the goal is as little cast member interaction as possible. Disney does not want cast members saying no. Any system where they are required to write down non ride times etc.. is setting up another cast member to tell someone no. While we here are reasonable people who all want someone with a handicap to have a magical day, there are people heck people with no handicaps who are abusing the system now who will walk up and have a hissy fit on the poor cast member stuck telling them no. Good customer service would say just let them in but that is how we got to this problem in the first place, unreasonable people scamming a system designed to help people.
Disney has been striving for years to get lines that are wheelchair accessible make everyone equal. I think the future plan is seriously to get fast pass distributed and running in a way where it will handle the wait and line issues for all guests including the handicapped and leave cast members with the job of sorting them out at the start of the line and at load/unload. While Disneyland fast pass is far from it, those new wrist bands and cell phone apps at Disneyworld are getting pretty close. I think we are a few years away from handicap simply being a computer notation for a guest, and lets say and yellow or orange light at fast pass check in that sends them to the proper load area. There is a technological solution for this and we are getting there.

 

[CPT Tripss]

No, I have had that with a GAC at WDW. I don't know about the new system there, perhaps they have fixed it.

But at it is worse at DLR, as there are only 13 attractions that have FP. One is down for refurbishment. About 6 of them have you using another entrance besides FP or have significant delays if you can't do stairs.

Leaving 6 rides that you return through FP at DLR. And this is assuming that FP is running on all 6 of the attractions. Most of the time, FP is only running on about 3-4 of these attractions. Which means for the vast majority of the attractions, you will not be entering through the FP queue or if you do, there will be significant delays.

By significant delays, I mean 20+ minutes. In most cases it's 45+ minutes.

Now not every attraction will have that massive of delays, but many will, which means the system is not equal at DLR and since they want it to work the same on both coasts, there needs to be a solution that does makes everything as equal as possible and works on both coasts.

I'm confused by this post. Is the cause for the delay the wait for an accessible vehicle? If not, what is it?

 

[cjbcam]

I'm not sure as to how it can be exactly equal to everyone. People that don't have a disability should not have to wait while people with disabilities get to just go through fp all the time adding wait time to there ride. Yet people with disabilities shouldn't have to wait longer than non disabled people either. With this new system it seems like they are trying to even out the times. Each person having to wait equal amounts of time for each ride, seems fair. I think it may take a little time to tweak the system. I also think people aren't happy because they are getting something taken from them ( fp access all the time). They are trying to make it equal access and I think that's what the new system does. I know equal access does not equal equal quality. I'm not sure they could ever do equal quality. For example I have four kids one has to nap therefor we leave the park for naps and come back missing rides that other people that didnt have to leave got to ride, how and why would disney have to make that up to me?

 

[Vidia2]

In life... There's a big difference in discussing daily struggles and who has it worse and DAS usage and what needs what or why. Wheelchair users/non users and wait times relate to the DAS, and I'm sure you have the ability to differentiate between the two.

Your statement was clearly referring to the DAS and who you believe needs more accommodations. This is your opinion, not difficult to differentiate from fact.

This thread has taken the usual course.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I'm not sure as to how it can be exactly equal to everyone. People that don't have a disability should not have to wait while people with disabilities get to just go through fp all the time adding wait time to there ride. Yet people with disabilities shouldn't have to wait longer than non disabled people either. With this new system it seems like they are trying to even out the times. Each person having to wait equal amounts of time for each ride, seems fair. I think it may take a little time to tweak the system. I also think people aren't happy because they are getting something taken from them ( fp access all the time). They are trying to make it equal access and I think that's what the new system does. I know equal access does not equal equal quality. I'm not sure they could ever do equal quality. For example I have four kids one has to nap therefor we leave the park for naps and come back missing rides that other people that didnt have to leave got to ride, how and why would disney have to make that up to me?

Exactly! It will never be exactly equal, but there needs to be a balance, and I believe that Disney is trying to do with the DAS. There was no balance before, and Disney was right to try to remedy that.

 

[Gracie09]

Exactly my point, since I have a DAS, if I want to go on Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin (when FP is not available) and Gadget's Go Coaster. I have to go to a kiosk (nearest one is near the Teacups in Fantasyland) to get a return time for one. Then I have to leave ToonTown, walk down a non-ADA compliant hill, go back to over by the teacups to get a return time for the other. Then walk back up the non-ADA compliant hill and go on the other attraction. Imagine doing things like that ALL day long. Can you see why we are saying the system is not EQUAL?

Or you can get a return time for one. Walk to the ride and wait near it. Ride. Go to the second ride get a return time. Wait near the ride and ride again. Like if a person without a das wanted to ride two rides. They go to one, wait on the line, go to the next and wait on the line.

 

[Schmeck]

Wouldn't that mean on every ride there should be an equal number of wheelchair accessible vehicles as none accessible. How many rides have more than 1?

That would assume that 50% of the population is in wheelchairs?

 

[Schmeck]

The FP system is being replaced by FP+. This is a significantly different system as it now stands. We tested it on our last trip. The restriction to 3 FP's, all in one park, and having to use the 3 FP's on 3 different rides made for much less successful touring. We had to use DD's GAC card a lot more often than previous trips. With the original FP system we would arrive at rope drop and grab FP's as we go in order to lessen the need for GAC use. My daughter doesn't have the cognitive ability to understand most of what is said to her or about her. But I do. When we were fortunate enough to take a mother-daughter trip one year we were subjected to a woman making loud, rude comments about us as we waited in the FP line using DD's GAC. It was upsetting and brought me to tears. I didn't (don't) want to chance that again on vacation, so I worked hard to work out strategies to minimize the need for accommodations. This involves getting up to be at rope drop, no matter if it is still dark out! And using FP's so as not to add unplanned for numbers of guests to the FP line by entering it with GAC. The combination of the GAC-to-DAS system changes along with FP system changes makes for a much different vacation for us---not in a good way.

If you use FP+, you will have 3 attractions already lined up, and the DAS will get you a 4th one. I think that would be much easier than your description of your past trip? If you choose not to use a DAS, that is your decision, so I'm not sure what you are trying to say about how it will be harder for you? Wouldn't it be your choice that makes it harder?

About getting up for rope drop - we all have to get up early for that to grab that all important first FP, so I'm not sure what the issue here is either?

 

[AndreaA]

Or you can get a return time for one. Walk to the ride and wait near it. Ride. Go to the second ride get a return time. Wait near the ride and ride again. Like if a person without a das wanted to ride two rides. They go to one, wait on the line, go to the next and wait on the line.

Try doing that with someone who is cognitively disabled (and no, I don't just mean autistic) and see how well it works to hang around outside the ride they are insisting on going on.

And let's not bother going down the "they should learn how to wait" road. Some people will never "learn to wait". Some people will never live outside their parents' home or a qualified institution/home. So saying they need to learn to make it in the real world is pointless.

Exactly what part of being able to visit other attractions is a disadvantage over those people standing in line? Did you read that before you typed it? I know it sounds good, but can we please have a serious conversation without sweeping senseless statements?

How is it not a disadvantage to have to go to a ride and then walk away and then go back later and still have to wait in a line? What attraction is there to do at BTMRR that doesn't require an exhausting walk up and down a rather steep hill?

It just seems to me that the argument with the solution proposed in this thread is that the disabled people don't have to wait at the same time as average guest. They DO have to wait, just at a different time, and apparently some people think that is somehow giving them something "extra". With the current DAS they would be able to visit other attractions/eat/bathroom, so that's not an advantage of the proposed system, it's just that they can ride when the urge/need strikes and then do their waiting by perhaps dawdling on the way to their next ride or otherwise distracting their loved one before they even get near the next ride. To me it sounds like some perverse envy. You don't get "instant gratification" so neither should anyone else, even if their mental state is such that they could be in physical or mental distress otherwise. I just don't get it.

People trying to make timelines showing that disabled people will end up waiting x number of minutes fewer or get one extra ride in are grasping at straws, in my opinion. Aside from the fact that I have yet to see one that I think is accurate, again, you're saying that you would rather have those disabled people waiting longer, having significantly more distressful days and missing out on a ride (as currently happens at the end of the day) in order to keep things "fair" in your mind. And if people are really complaining that hr+ waits were caused by GAC users, do you think that's going to change now? Those people will still be coming through the FP line. They will still be holding up the standby line. Frankly, if you're in an hr+ line and it's not Enchanted Tales or TSMM, then you're touring wrong, because even in July you can visit the parks and not have waits like that as long as you do it right.

As for the line of thinking that they should use FP/FP+, well, FP will be going away and there have been numerous posts about how making such advance plans will not work with people whose moods/desires can change on a dime. And try reading a few FP+ threads to see how difficult it is to get a same day FP+ for anything.

 

[lovethattink]

I'm assuming that's a DL thing since I've never experienced a FP line that long?

No, at WDW we experienced a 30+ minute wait for Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh of all places recently. It was in August, there were very few people with FP in the line, the majority of parties had GACs in their hand. My son's air conditioners buy him about 15 minutes out doors, before humidity kicks in and it blows out warm air. By the time we got to the air conditioned part of the line he had already started overheating. The only other time we had a wait like this was near Christmas. So I don't believe it's typical, but can happen.

Also there's been many times waiting for Buzz that was over 30 minutes, but had we not had to wait additional time in the w/c queue it would have been less. (And this wasn't wait for an accessible car, this was to transfer from w/c and walk to a car.)

Spaceship Earth's alternate entrance is another place that's hit or miss. They send two w/c parties in at a time. If you are "lucky" enough not to have any other w/c parties waiting you could go right in, but if there are some ahead of you it could be a long wait. Many times waited more than 30 minutes.

Peter Pan is another one. There is a 2 w/c rule due to limitations of space for parking them. The wait all depended on how many w/c parties were ahead of us at to how long we waited.

The Little mermaid Voyage Under the Sea is another one that send a w/c party to an additional waiting area at the exit. All depends on how many w/c parties are ahead of you as to how much longer your wait will be. The longest we've waited there was an additional 20 minutes. Again this was to leave the w/c there at the exit area and walk to a car, not wait for an accessible car. The party waiting for an accessible one would probably have an even longer wait.

 

[mistysue]

Try doing that with someone who is cognitively disabled (and no, I don't just mean autistic) and see how well it works to hang around outside the ride they are insisting on going on.

And let's not bother going down the "they should learn how to wait" road. Some people will never "learn to wait". Some people will never live outside their parents' home or a qualified institution/home. So saying they need to learn to make it in the real world is pointless.

How is it not a disadvantage to have to go to a ride and then walk away and then go back later and still have to wait in a line? What attraction is there to do at BTMRR that doesn't require an exhausting walk up and down a rather steep hill?

It just seems to me that the argument with the solution proposed in this thread is that the disabled people don't have to wait at the same time as average guest. They DO have to wait, just at a different time, and apparently some people think that is somehow giving them something "extra". With the current DAS they would be able to visit other attractions/eat/bathroom, so that's not an advantage of the proposed system, it's just that they can ride when the urge/need strikes and then do their waiting by perhaps dawdling on the way to their next ride or otherwise distracting their loved one before they even get near the next ride. To me it sounds like some perverse envy. You don't get "instant gratification" so neither should anyone else, even if their mental state is such that they could be in physical or mental distress otherwise. I just don't get it.

People trying to make timelines showing that disabled people will end up waiting x number of minutes fewer or get one extra ride in are grasping at straws, in my opinion. Aside from the fact that I have yet to see one that I think is accurate, again, you're saying that you would rather have those disabled people waiting longer, having significantly more distressful days and missing out on a ride (as currently happens at the end of the day) in order to keep things "fair" in your mind. And if people are really complaining that hr+ waits were caused by GAC users, do you think that's going to change now?

People who were abusing the system are significantly less likely to do so without immediate gratification. The same is also true about cases where a cognitive disability has somebody more on the boarder of needing assistance. If it is not so bright and shiney, some of those families will choose to spend their energy planning more intelligently, rather than walking into HS at noon and expecting to immediately ride TSM, RNR and TOT within a couple hours.

Then there are situations, as you are saying, where a person can not be planned out, can not "just learn to wait"- this is the exception to the norm, even among those who need assistance. Just as it is not reasonable for you to not get an extra hand, it is not fair that anybody can walk in to GS, say they cant wait (simplifying here) and get all of the accomodations needed by an individual with a much more complex situation.
By arguing that everybody should have immediate access, it really does downplay your scenario and create complications for yourself, as it is so easily open to abuse. The time scenarios are not grasping at straws, they are pointing out a clear and obvious advantage not available to all. In some cases it is a needed advantage for other reasons, but that is not universally true.

 

[cmwade77]

I'm confused by this post. Is the cause for the delay the wait for an accessible vehicle? If not, what is it?

Yes and no, the cause of the delay at many attractions is that they are only allowed to have x number of people who can't handle stairs at a time. So, if you can't handle stairs, you are put in the same line as those waiting for the accessible vehicles at many attractions. What this really means is you also have to wait for the accessible vehicle to come around how many times it takes to clear out the line in front of you. Even if you don't need the accessible vehicle yourself.

 

[cmwade77]

About getting up for rope drop - we all have to get up early for that to grab that all important first FP, so I'm not sure what the issue here is either?

Some have needs that make this impossible, I think that may be what the issue there is.

 

[cmwade77]

People who were abusing the system are significantly less likely to do so without immediate gratification. The same is also true about cases where a cognitive disability has somebody more on the boarder of needing assistance. If it is not so bright and shiney, some of those families will choose to spend their energy planning more intelligently, rather than walking into HS at noon and expecting to immediately ride TSM, RNR and TOT within a couple hours.

Then there are situations, as you are saying, where a person can not be planned out, can not "just learn to wait"- this is the exception to the norm, even among those who need assistance. Just as it is not reasonable for you to not get an extra hand, it is not fair that anybody can walk in to GS, say they cant wait (simplifying here) and get all of the accomodations needed by an individual with a much more complex situation.
By arguing that everybody should have immediate access, it really does downplay your scenario and create complications for yourself, as it is so easily open to abuse. The time scenarios are not grasping at straws, they are pointing out a clear and obvious advantage not available to all. In some cases it is a needed advantage for other reasons, but that is not universally true.

The system I suggested in my OP does limit the instant gratification to the first attraction of the day only. I did state that this could be an issue that may need to be sorted. But also pointed out that the chances are that at least on the day you go to get the DAS, the process of getting one is likely to take about the same amount of time as the first rides standby line would.

Since you would still be waiting after each ride, there is no true immediate access.

 

[cmwade77]

Or you can get a return time for one. Walk to the ride and wait near it. Ride. Go to the second ride get a return time. Wait near the ride and ride again. Like if a person without a das wanted to ride two rides. They go to one, wait on the line, go to the next and wait on the line.

No, because they both have physical barriers that require me to use the alternate entrances, which means I cannot wait in the standby lines on either, no matter how short the wait is.

 

[aaarcher86]

Your statement was clearly referring to the DAS and who you believe needs more accommodations. This is your opinion, not difficult to differentiate from fact. This thread has taken the usual course.

What are you talking about?

The discussion was about WC users have an incredibly long wait for an accessible vehicle, which yes, is not equitable. The post I quoted that you're being smart about was going through the daily struggles of their child in a regular life setting and why it's "not fair." Threads have been closed for the debate of who has a worse disability and why... That's not at all what I was referring to. I'm not comparing disabilities, but access via the DAS. The post I quoted was also riddled with personal insults, again, I didn't do that either.

You really don't see the difference in the two? That's your problem. It's not rocket science.