FP + What we know and what we want to know

[HelenParr]

Oh, the breakfast angels -- forgot about them. That was a case of good intentions gone horribly wrong. I am sorry that happened to anyone. (What ever happened to Rita A?) Anywhoo, back to FP.

Seems that FP issues with unbalanced abuse, oversue, I'll try no labels and go with "usage" could more easily be solved with lengthening the refraction window from 2 hours to 4 hours. They contracted it to 2 hours because it was annoying to pull a FP and then be blocked out all day (everyone remember that shift?). FP+, if it allows only 1 E-ride per day, is blocking you out all day just like FP did before the 2 hour "fix." Back where we sort of started...but with a wristband.

Disney thinks the pre-planning option is the key to guest experience. Here's hoping they make the technology work, which they have yet to do, or FP+ will not even get a good test before guest frustration sets in.

 

[Tink10]

Can you please clarify what you mean by abuse of the FP system? If you mean people using FPs after their return window, that was fixed months ago. If you mean people who give FPs to others, you must be joking. There is no way that WDW is filled with noble travelers with a Tinkerbell fixation who want to spend their day spreading "pixie dust." Is there a tiny, and statistically insignificant, number of individuals doing this? Sure, but like I said, these people can't possibly exist in numbers large enough to affect the efficiency and integrity of the FP system.

Ok...now don't knock the Tink fans who give away unused FastPasses

 

[MAGICFOR2]

How is the FP slot not wasted? Using another poster's previous example, if I were to grab the last FP of the day for an attraction and then not use it (when there was someone behind me who would have wanted it) how is that not a waste? The FP doesn't go back into the system..there's not somehow one more than there would have been, and it doesn't change the length of the stand by line..

I feel it does change the length of the stand-by line. That is one party of 4 or 6 that is not showing up to get in front of people in the stand-by line, so they can let that 4 or 6 on sooner. When they weren't enforcing the times, you could come back later when the lines were shorter and make less impact on the standby time.

I recently took advantage of the DVC PAP deal. Now, after having spent well over $1k on passes, I have no way currently to take advantage of FP+.

I have no ticket to tie to my reservation until the day I show up at the parks and activate the APs. I really have to wonder if there is a connection there. I'm not sure of a motive, but the timing seems interesting. Create a whole group of people who can't use the system at roll out.

I believe it has been speculated here that you will be able to use your voucher numbers for those as ticket numbers when you are ready to book.

 

[danceintherain]

I've been wondering if that's not what we are really moving towards.

Insteadwaiting in a 90 minute SB line, you would simply be assigned a return time 90 minutes from now. Now you have 90 minutes to go spend money.

Considering the people who still walk up to restaurants and Disney and want to "wait" even when the CM tells them the wait will be 3 hours long, and the people who stand outside of the FP queue until their return time comes up, I doubt they'll ever get rid of the standby line for attractions. As long as people are willing to wait, there will always be a line.

Though I can see how having a virtual standby line in addition to a virtual FP line may make sense. Maybe there will be three lines. The FP+ line for prebooked line waiting (only 3 a day - less than 30 minute wait) the virtual standby line where you check in and are given a return time during which time you can't "wait" for any other attractions (one at a time - 45-60 minute wait) and the regular stand by line for waits longer than an hour. For the first two, they can ding your wristband with an adjusted return time based on ride failure etc, but the third you're in for the long haul.

The second would actually get them their end game. If people can't ride other rides during their "wait time", then all that would be left is food, souvenirs, and toilets. Though I don't know how they would control the wait time, unless the standby time was really malleable.

 

[bcrook]

Interesting...he's saying it is the "long term" plan. How long term he doesn't say. If Disney rolls it out to everyone, completes the conversion to FP+ only, and then turns around and says, "Now it's only for Resort guests", many, many people will be upset. (worthy of a first post question I think...)

They could also do things differently at DLR.


The addendum falls in line with our expectations that FP really will go away.

Which part you want on there? How long until it becomes for Resort Guests only? or How many, many people will be upset? I have several versions of this under the "speculation" heading right now. I decided to leave off the second question...

 

[doconeill]

Considering the people who still walk up to restaurants and Disney and want to "wait" even when the CM tells them the wait will be 3 hours long, and the people who stand outside of the FP queue until their return time comes up, I doubt they'll ever get rid of the standby line for attractions. As long as people are willing to wait, there will always be a line.

There will always be a standby line. It is needed to fill in the gaps that happen because the return times are flexible. Otherwise at times the FP line would overwhelm, and other times the attraction would be underutilized.

 

[estherhead]

Here's something fun for you all to read.


http://www.math.ucla.edu/~lvese/MCM_ICM/mcmPaperCU-team381.pdf

 

[doconeill]

Which part you want on there? How long until it becomes for Resort Guests only? or How many, many people will be upset? I have several versions of this under the "speculation" heading right now. I decided to leave off the second question...

I was just referring to "Will FP+ be offered to all guests at first, but then be restricted to resort guests only"...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Here's something fun for you all to read.

http://www.math.ucla.edu/~lvese/MCM_ICM/mcmPaperCU-team381.pdf

Don't muddy the waters with scientific research!!!! LOL!

Awesome link.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[Rosanne]

Yes, it is a balancing act.

However, there are always going to be some guests that are not happy with their experience at WDW for a variety of reasons.

Disney also wants to turn new guests into repeat guests.

What in your mind would be the best balance of both worlds with the new FP+ system?

Realizing you weren't speaking directly to me, but it got me thinking about something I have been thinking off and on for sooooo long.

I don't know the exact size space required for TSM or Soarin' but...

Gosh, it would be nice if they could have put duplicates or almost duplicates in that empty section of EPCOT. I mean, heck, they could use bow and arrow type shooter thingies for and effectively duplicate the TSM ride with old pottery or Scottish targets and stuff from "Brave" or some other thing. If they can have dueling Dumbos why couldn't they have just put in a second Soarin in the empty building? Maybe they could have done both. That would have been nice. Doubled capacity. Concept stuff already worked out.

 

[CuteAsMinnie]

Though I can see how having a virtual standby line in addition to a virtual FP line may make sense. Maybe there will be three lines. The FP+ line for prebooked line waiting (only 3 a day - less than 30 minute wait) the virtual standby line where you check in and are given a return time during which time you can't "wait" for any other attractions (one at a time - 45-60 minute wait) and the regular stand by line for waits longer than an hour. For the first two, they can ding your wristband with an adjusted return time based on ride failure etc, but the third you're in for the long haul.

The second would actually get them their end game. If people can't ride other rides during their "wait time", then all that would be left is food, souvenirs, and toilets. Though I don't know how they would control the wait time, unless the standby time was really malleable.

I can't imagine how this scenario would do anything but tick off a whole bunch of guests! Interesting scenario tho.

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

Obviously, the FP system IS the primary focus of this thread.

But, to my mind, a complete reworking of the FP system is not necessarily a cure-all
(or even an appropriate cure, period) for the ills in question.

The new FP+ rules (as we know them at this point...) severely disturbs a group of guests that was pretty "happy" before, and drags their experience down to a level that matches folks who either don't know the difference, don't bother to research, or don't care enough to take advantage of a wide-open FP system that has worked pretty well for over a decade.

The "spread the misery" approach is not exactly "fair" to anyone, IMO.

Could not agree more!! I'm an obsessive Disney planner. ADR's, EMH, Parks scheduled for each day but the idea of planning rides months in advance is just too much even for me. I've helped many families plan their Disney vacations and I have to say the one thing they all resist is the scheduling. They do not want to be bothered scheduling meals in advance or their park days months in advance. A Disney vacation just ends up being too much work for these people. How on Earth does Disney expect the "average" visitor to want to pre-schedule rides. I just don't see it. FP worked well the way it was. I felt it was fair in its opportunity for all to to take advantage of (unlike US where you have to pay thru the nose for that advantage) Like with anything else in life, the more you learned about how it worked the more you could take advantage of it to minimize waits and maximize rides. This new version of FP+ seems much more restrictive and will offer us less for our vacation dollars not more.

 

[Robo]

Any FP abuse, as with any other abuse of Disney policy does affect others.

I don't agree that "FP abuse" was the presenting problem.

If THAT was the problem that they wanted to correct,
they could have corrected it...
At any time during the last decade.

They have yet to even require guests at Disneyland use a FP within the printed window.

If that is seen as abuse, they could have changed that rule at DLR
at the same time as they made the change at WDW.
or a year to ten years earlier.

Purely based on my years and years of observation, I don't see that "FP abuse" was/is the problem that
Disney was/is trying to address.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

If guests "giving away" FP's were a problem, why didn't you just need to scan your ticket again to use your FP? Therefore proving that it was your FP and not someone elses?

I don't agree that "FP abuse" was the presenting problem.

If THAT was the problem that they wanted to correct,
they could have corrected it...
At any time during the last decade.

They have yet to even require guests at Disneyland use a FP within the printed window.

If that is seen as abuse, they could have changed that rule at DLR
at the same time as they made the change at WDW.
or a year to ten years earlier.

Purely based on my years and years of observation, I don't see that "FP abuse" was/is the problem that
Disney was/is trying to address.

 

[UNCFanatik]

I don't agree that "FP abuse" was the presenting problem.

If THAT was the problem that they wanted to correct,
they could have corrected it...
At any time during the last decade.

They have yet to even require guests at Disneyland use a FP within the printed window.

If that is seen as abuse, they could have changed that rule at DLR
at the same time as they made the change at WDW.
or a year to ten years earlier.

Purely based on my years and years of observation, I don't see that "FP abuse" was/is the problem that
Disney was/is trying to address.

As I have said previously, I think it was a combination of many different factors varying in weight that led to the change. And any change of this magnitude takes years of planning. They may have wanted to make a change earlier for various reasons and did not have anything they thought would be a viable alternative. I dont think anyone here would have liked to see Disney try something different to tweaks things every couple of years. Now they have a total system that incorporates FPs but it goes beyond JUST the FP. They address multiple items with one all encompassing solution.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

2. The FPs say on the back that they are non-transferable and not for sale. When people give away FPs as "pixie dust", they are violating that rule. Funny how people dont think that the should follow that rule but say they always follow Disney rules. Irony is lost on them.

So if I take a FP for TSM and then, for whatever reason, can no longer use it, it's better to throw it into the bin? To Disney, it makes no difference if I'm on that ride or another guests because that "place" has been "reserved" for me to ride between 1pm and 2pm or whatever the FP says.

 

[UNCFanatik]

So if I take a FP for TSM and then, for whatever reason, can no longer use it, it's better to throw it into the bin? To Disney, it makes no difference if I'm on that ride or another guests because that "place" has been "reserved" for me to ride between 1pm and 2pm or whatever the FP says.

Yes, its better for everyone else if unused FPs were thrown away. Lines move faster with less people in them of course, be it SB or FP. Shorter waits equates to higher guest satisfaction. Lets use an extreme example. If a large tour group pulls 50 FPs lets say and cant use them and their FP window is right before yours. Would you prefer this group give their 50 FPs to 50 random people or would you prefer they just throw them away? Nothing is lost or negatively effected if you throw away FPs you cant use.

Just look at people on this thread hoping people that end up with early morning FP+'s do not show up so they can continue to have an advantage at RD.

 

[DAZY3BYZ]

So if I take a FP for TSM and then, for whatever reason, can no longer use it, it's better to throw it into the bin? To Disney, it makes no difference if I'm on that ride or another guests because that "place" has been "reserved" for me to ride between 1pm and 2pm or whatever the FP says.

Nope, it doesn't. We have been the receivers of those random acts of kindness and also the distributors. Always made us feel really good when we were able to do this. Mind you, it didn't happen much. We almost always used the FP's ourselves. Sometimes though things came up so we were able to share them with someone vs letting them go to waste. The argument that it would be better to throw them out because "it's the rule" is just plain ridiculous.

 

[Tink10]

Nope, it doesn't. We have been the receivers of those random acts of kindness and also the distributors. Always made us feel really good when we were able to do this. Mind you, it didn't happen much. We almost always used the FP's ourselves. Sometimes though things came up so we were able to share them with someone vs letting them go to waste. The argument that it would be better to throw them out because "it's the rule" is just plain ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more

 

[reelmom]

It costs (present-day) approx. one hundred million dollars to create a major new "E-ticket" attraction, give or take a few million.

A billion dollars would net TEN brand new "E-ticket" attractions, give or take an attraction or two.

Would being able to ride 8-12 new major attractions appeal to guests?

But only riding the new rides once per trip. We don't want to abuse the system or take somebody's spot.