Disney World to Add Property-Wide Wifi

[lockedoutlogic]

thats pretty much what I already said on the previous page

You may have...

but i interpreted it the other way as well.

When you said that you racked up a big phone bill and it would be "nice to be able to use Skype and Facebook to stay in touch"...Horace was saying - as many of us always do - that that is the LAST thing that Disney would want to enable.

They have no desire to make things "more convenient to check in back home"...in fact the opposite.

Their motivation is pretty simple...get you to pay to get there, then get you to pay more in the giftshop.

That pretty much sums it up - and while simplistic, is the 100% truth. Now, the softer side is that they will do things to get you to come back and tell your friends, family, and future generations to keep coming. That is the good side for us, the customers. But the ruthless money grubbing day to day stuff is has gotten bad by and large. And free wifi and kids sitting on benches playing games as opposed to browsing the giftshops....very NOT good for Disney's dividend stock holders...err..i mean..."magic makers".

And they are fully aware. Whatever the real reason - if this is not in fact disney deciding its inevitable and creating a giant wifi hotspot over their property - it is an angle to make more money from you somehow. Horace's post about nails it, in my opinion

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney's mission is to make money for Disney.

If this WiFi implementation allows guests to stay in touch with home using services such as Facebook and Skype, that would be good for guests -- but that would not be the reason why Disney has contracted for property-wide WiFi.

100% agree

this turns out be WiFi for guests, not just for company use, it will be because Disney has a business plan that justifies the expense. For example, by giving guests real-time access to wait times at attractions and restaurants, Disney could improve utilization of its facilities, allowing Disney to handle more guests without making new capital investments.

Again...I can't dispute...and it depresses me. This is why i miss Eisner. He loved money, but he also had an ego and wanted to build stuff, stand out front and say "hey...aren't i great, peasants?"
CMB and the boys are too methodical..."profit, profit, expense cutting, expense cutting!"
The fact that disney's park offerings are based on attractions that are now 40, 30, 25+ years old is frightening....there is very little in any of those parks that are less than 15 years old. and in the theme park business...they have a term for that: REALLY OLD.
if they add new to augment the old...there is a great deal of charm. If they don't...the place is beyond stale. It's a thin line that i believe they are standing on the wrong side of now.

others have noted, this could be part of NextGen, but we don't know what that will give us on our mobile devices. I would like to think that this will be free, open WiFi for all guests, but it's also possible that it would be limited to Disney-provided apps (for various platforms) only.

Nah...it's not like Disney is joined to the hip to Apple or anything...

wait a minute....

On an interesting side note...i was working at a verizon facility this week where it is fairly common opinion that all of verizon has or shortly will be announced to have been bought outright. Verizon now operates a cable provider in addition to its wireless and domestic phone/internet services.

I can only think of a few companies that have the means or desire to buy them...and one of them has a tail, whiskers, and big ears.

with the comcast/nbc merger...the rat will look to find its own place for distribution sooner or later. I wonder when it will be? soon or later?

 

[tjkraz]

But the ruthless money grubbing day to day stuff is has gotten bad by and large. And free wifi and kids sitting on benches playing games as opposed to browsing the giftshops....

However, the longer you keep people in the parks--no matter the reason--the greater the chances a purchase will occur. It may not be a t-shirt but it could be a soda or soft pretzel or rain poncho.

Parents can send their kids to a bench with the iPod while the browse stores, increasing the chance of a purchase.

All of the people camped out for parades or fireworks would have another vehicle to help pass the time. In that regard, wifi can help add value to the overall experience.

I can see both sides of the argument so I guess it just depends upon which approach the suits have decided to buy into.

They could make it a closed network and only provide access to park-essential sites. But once they have the infrastructure in place, there really isn't much additional cost involved to open the network to all sites. Additional bandwidth would be required but that's not a huge expense.

Personally I can't see the presence of open wifi costing them much in terms of sales. If people want to shop, they will shop. If people want to check email or post to Facebook, they'll leave the park and go where wifi is available.

Giving guests another reason to stay in the parks will add net sales to the bottom line, IMO.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

However, the longer you keep people in the parks--no matter the reason--the greater the chances a purchase will occur. It may not be a t-shirt but it could be a soda or soft pretzel or rain poncho.

Parents can send their kids to a bench with the iPod while the browse stores, increasing the chance of a purchase.

All of the people camped out for parades or fireworks would have another vehicle to help pass the time. In that regard, wifi can help add value to the overall experience.

I can see both sides of the argument so I guess it just depends upon which approach the suits have decided to buy into.

They could make it a closed network and only provide access to park-essential sites. But once they have the infrastructure in place, there really isn't much additional cost involved to open the network to all sites. Additional bandwidth would be required but that's not a huge expense.

Personally I can't see the presence of open wifi costing them much in terms of sales. If people want to shop, they will shop. If people want to check email or post to Facebook, they'll leave the park and go where wifi is available.

Giving guests another reason to stay in the parks will add net sales to the bottom line, IMO.

you may be right...

but we know that they have "idiot-proofed" the resort cable system for years to get people outta the rooms...

and since that works on a vast portion of the american public..i won't believe open access until i see it.

I do wonder though...
Have they been tracking a decline in the amount of time people are spending in the park? (not days...hours)
Because they could link that to smart devices if that is the case.

 

[tjkraz]

but we know that they have "idiot-proofed" the resort cable system for years to get people outta the rooms...

Yeah, but that's changing too. Disney is adding about 3 dozen channels to all resort TV lineups. No Nick stations but just about everything else in modern day basic cable (TNT, TBS, HGTV, Travel Channel, Fox News, etc.)

Between that and the resort wifi, it sounds like the philosophy may be changing.

I always thought it was very narrow-minded of Disney to believe that they could use ancillary services to manipulate guest spending. Cable TV is a prime example. How many people would really end up buying extra t-shirts just because they couldn't wait to get away from the awful resort TV channels?

The programming itself undoubtedly costs more so there is that aspect. But overall I tend to believe that providing a high-quality experience makes guests more willing to patronize the resort in the first place. And when you aren't angering people by separating them from an NBA playoff game on TNT or charging $12 per day for wired Internet service, they don't care so much about the $3 sodas, $10 mixed drinks and $30 t-shirts.

..i won't believe open access until i see it.

I'm with you there...

 

[WebmasterMike]

Here is the Press Release from when Crown Castle installed the DAS into the Amway Center...

ress Release
Crown Castle Deploys Distributed Antenna System at Amway Center
Enhances Wireless Coverage at Games and Events
HOUSTON, Mar 24, 2011

Crown Castle International Corp. (NYSE:CCI) today announced that one of its subsidiaries has deployed a neutral host distributed antenna system ("DAS") to facilitate wireless communication services to all 875,000 square feet of the Amway Center in Orlando, Florida. The system is expected to provide enhanced wireless voice and data coverage for up to five wireless carriers.

"Fans attending major sporting events and concerts want to share their experience and stay connected via their mobile devices by sharing calls, texts and photos with friends and family across the country before, during and after events at the center," said Pat Slowey, Crown Castle's Senior Vice President -- Sales and Customer Relations. "For venues looking to provide wireless coverage on game day or during other events, a DAS network provides the optimal wireless infrastructure solution."

The new Amway Center features eight levels, five public concourses, and can seat up to 20,000 people. To provide enhanced wireless coverage for fans and staff throughout the Amway Center, an indoor DAS network was deployed. The system is comprised of antennas connected by fiber to a communications hub designed to facilitate wireless communications for multiple carriers.

"The Amway Center is revolutionizing the way fans watch a live basketball game or concert," said Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer. "The building is the most technologically advanced center in the country, featuring more than 1,100 high-definition television screens and a state-of-the-art digital signage network throughout the building, which maximizes fan engagement and interaction and provides patron information. The additional wireless coverage provided by the DAS network will further enhance our attendees' experiences."

"Crown Castle is a pioneer in the design, deployment and monitoring of neutral host DAS networks. As a leading provider of shared wireless infrastructure in the US, Crown Castle has long term relationships with all major wireless carriers," stated Jim Young, Crown Castle's Chief Operating Officer. "We work directly with the carriers to lease capacity on the system, enabling the venue owner to enjoy incremental revenue without the burden of coordinating deployment, installation, and maintenance of the system. More importantly, the venue can deliver one of their primary objectives, ensuring a superb wireless experience for fans at the venue before, during and after an event."

About Crown Castle

Crown Castle owns, operates, and leases towers and other infrastructure for wireless communications. Crown Castle offers significant wireless communications coverage to 92 of the top 100 US markets and to substantially all of the Australian population. Crown Castle owns, operates, and manages over 22,000 and approximately 1,600 wireless communication sites in the US and Australia, respectively.

About the Amway Center

The Orlando Magic served as the developer of the Amway Center, which will host major national events, concerts and family shows. Opened in the fall of 2010, the facility is owned and operated by the City of Orlando on behalf of the Central Florida Community. The Amway Center was designed to reflect the character of the community, meet the goals of the users and build on the legacy of sports and entertainment in Orlando. The building features a sustainable, environmentally-friendly design and unmatched technology that provides fans with extraordinary access to event coverage both inside and outside the arena.

Now, time to inject some 802.11 RF theory into this.

There are only 3 clean channels in 2.4ghz 1, 6, & 11. There are many more available "clean" channels in 5ghz.

The ideal number of machines per Access Point in 15 on 802.11g (anything more and your speed decreases exponentially).

The tolerances for 802.11a/n are much higher, but 2.4ghz is the wireless sewer. Now, bring a DAS into place. The Distributed Antenna System, has to be able to connect to multiple available radio channels and Radios in the Targeted Areas. Expecting 802.11g/n to work everywhere is setting yourself up for severe disappointment. I think we need to wait and see what the Crown Castle is really installing. This may be just cellular enhancement. Remember, Nextel's IDEN infrastructure is going "bye-bye" and all of WDW uses that as their Radio service. They have to enhance the Sprint PCS Signal and the new 860mhz Signals into the WDW area to provide seamless radio communications.

Last year WDW started working with Sprint to phase out their Nextels starting in 2012. I think this DAS infrastructure is to support that initiative. If they decide to layer Wi-Fi on-top, then that is just the cherry. BUT, and that is a big BUT, do not expect it to work worth a crap! There is a Distributed Antenna System on each of the DCL ships, and that Wifi stinks. (Not to be confused with the internet service, which is also not great because it is on VSAT).

Here is a release on a system they installed for a 16 sq mile city. This system is for cellular only.

Crown Castle Announces Distributed Antenna System in Paradise Valley, Arizona

Network to Enhance Wireless Coverage in Residential Community
HOUSTON, Mar 30, 2011 (GlobeNewswire via COMTEX) --

Crown Castle International Corp. (NYSE:CCI) today announced that one of its subsidiaries has completed construction of a distributed antenna system (DAS) to facilitate wireless communications services in Paradise Valley, Arizona. The community near Phoenix approved a DAS wireless solution in order to provide enhanced wireless coverage, preserve the town's aesthetics, and accommodate multiple wireless carriers. The Paradise Valley DAS network provides wireless coverage for residents and first responders throughout the 16 square mile community. AT&T Mobility is the first wireless provider to utilize the DAS network, and the network has the capacity to support up to four additional carriers.

Working with town leaders and citizens, Crown Castle designed and constructed a forty-two node outdoor DAS system for the town. The system utilizes three streetlights, two traffic signals, and thirty-seven faux cacti to conceal wireless antennae and equipment.

"Crown Castle worked closely with the town council and residents to develop a wireless solution that would satisfy coverage demands and preserve the aesthetics of Paradise Valley," stated Mike Kavanagh, President -- DAS for Crown Castle. "Crown Castle invested a lot of time in public outreach in order to educate residents about DAS and to collect their input on what the system's components should look like and where they should be located. As a result of the public outreach campaign, the town leaders approved the DAS network, allowing construction to begin without delay."

"Our town government is dedicated to preserving the residential character of the community. The town's residents expect ubiquitous wireless service, but not at the expense of changing the peaceful, quiet surroundings of the town," said Scott LeMarr, Mayor of Paradise Valley. "With Crown Castle we found a company that recognized the special character of our town and that developed a design solution that preserved the town's aesthetics while providing great wireless coverage."

The town of Paradise Valley, Crown Castle and AT&T Mobility will celebrate the new DAS network at a Ribbon Cutting Ceremony on Wednesday, March 30th at 10:00 AM (PDT) at the Police Department Auditorium on the Town Hall Campus. Paradise Valley's mayor and council members, as well as representatives of Crown Castle and AT&T Mobility, will "flip the switch" to activate the DAS network.

After looking through some additional docs, I really doubt this is for wifi and is strictly for Cellular Carrier Enhancement.

It also looks like Disney is having this installed at Disneyland also.

It looks like the radios are only compatible with Cellular carriers as indicated in this radio requirement by the city of Orlando. I would have figured they would have also used this for the Public Safety Radio system as well, but I guess not.

 

[umichigan10]

100% agree

Again...I can't dispute...and it depresses me. This is why i miss Eisner. He loved money, but he also had an ego and wanted to build stuff, stand out front and say "hey...aren't i great, peasants?"
CMB and the boys are too methodical..."profit, profit, expense cutting, expense cutting!"
The fact that disney's park offerings are based on attractions that are now 40, 30, 25+ years old is frightening....there is very little in any of those parks that are less than 15 years old. and in the theme park business...they have a term for that: REALLY OLD.
if they add new to augment the old...there is a great deal of charm. If they don't...the place is beyond stale. It's a thin line that i believe they are standing on the wrong side of now.

Off topic but your post made me think. Isn't the above kind of a description of Disneyland in the early 90's (or something like that) while all the focus was on expanding WDW. The park was old, poorly managed, and management kept cutting costs to the max. Then Eisner stepped in and fixed the problem (I think this was around the time DCA and DL Hotel was being remodeled and whatnot).

Now the thing with DL is Eisner came in to save the day. The problem is that upper management is cutting costs not the resort. So the question is who's gonna save WDW from this disaster?

Again sorry for being off topic. Felt a need to post this.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

lol like usual Disney Parks ten years behind the rest of the world!

Ha ha.......oops, right again Figment.

Remember how long it took to add hair dryers or COFFEE pots to the room. Oh no! Guests might want to save a $$$$$$$ on breakfast with some instant oatmeal and fruit. Bad guest! Bad guest!

 

[disneydiva72]

We just recently got back from Coronado Springs and it was FREE WIFI in our rooms and through out the resort.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

lol like usual Disney Parks ten years behind the rest of the world!

Ha ha.......oops, right again Figment.

Remember Joe long it took to add hair dryers or COFFEE pots to the room. Oh no! Guests might want to save a $$$$$$$ breakfast with some instant coffee. After sllhggggf

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Off topic but your post made me think. Isn't the above kind of a description of Disneyland in the early 90's (or something like that) while all the focus was on expanding WDW. The park was old, poorly managed, and management kept cutting costs to the max. Then Eisner stepped in and fixed the problem (I think this was around the time DCA and DL Hotel was being remodeled and whatnot).

Now the thing with DL is Eisner came in to save the day. The problem is that upper management is cutting costs not the resort. So the question is who's gonna save WDW from this disaster?

Again sorry for being off topic. Felt a need to post this.

The problem is the that DL is right across the street from the boss's office. So not only is it a black eye to let that park fall into decay...i would imagine that when the corporates are negotiating partnerships, sponsors, acquisitions, and deals...that they need DL to be a showpiece for the W&D portions of the pitch.

That's why i believe they had no choice but to throw the safe at California Adventure...not by choice.

The problem is that WDW is tucked into swamp with a less discerning clientele. Fools (like me for example...a mere 2 1/2 weeks away) keep pumping money into the registers even as the quality is falling and they are making no attempts whatsoever to be innovative or cutting edge.

East Coasters (and i've been one my whole life...so retract the claws) are pretty dumb. Buy, Buy, Buy...no thought as to how you're are getting more and more ripped off everyday. Since probably 50% of WDWs clientele falls in the "east coast" classification -that is a problem. From Bangor to Boca Raton...i don't see anyone with the spine to stop going (me included...to a point) if they continue to bleed the place. Certainly not the creatures i drive past in the Garden State everyday.

Eisner was quoted as saying that Iger was an idiot and he'd "never run the place".
Mikey was a complete Mad Hatter by the time he was forced out...but he probably was right in that the current management has neither the will nor the imagination to take things to the next creative level. And Eisner, Wells, and Roy O did understand that (for all their egos, squabbling and imperfections..at least that was understood)...because if you don't in technology or entertainment...you are left behind in a pile of bankrupt rubble. The mouse can only keep the damn together for so long.

Remember that Iger once ran a television network that made Urkel and Bob Saget its focal point stars...

yikes

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Did anyone else notice on that Crown Castle ad (nice post, by the way) that it has "major theme park - lake buena vista florida" on their?

How on earth hasn't team D sued the pants off them yet? that is a violation of the CIA protocols of the Mouse.


I used the service at Consol Energy Center (not that i realized it at the time)...i was satisfied/impressed with the services

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Off topic but your post made me think. Isn't the above kind of a description of Disneyland in the early 90's (or something like that) while all the focus was on expanding WDW. The park was old, poorly managed, and management kept cutting costs to the max. Then Eisner stepped in and fixed the problem (I think this was around the time DCA and DL Hotel was being remodeled and whatnot).

Now the thing with DL is Eisner came in to save the day. The problem is that upper management is cutting costs not the resort. So the question is who's gonna save WDW from this disaster?

Again sorry for being off topic. Felt a need to post this.

No. It's not accurate to say that Eisner "stepped in and fixed the problem" at Disneyland or that Michael Eisner "came in to save the day."

Eisner took the top spot at Disney in 1984. With long-time Disneyland professionals such as Jack Lindquist in charge, Disneyland did well. In fact, Eisner and his team directed most of their attention to Disney's floundering movie business and to maximizing revenue and profits at Walt Disney World. Disneyland was a "cash cow" that could be left alone.

Under the management of Michael Eisner (Chairman and CEO of The Walt Disney Company) and seasoned executive Frank Wells (President of The Walt Disney Company), the company flourished for ten years. Sadly, Frank Wells died in 1994 in a helicopter crash during a ski vacation. Many Disney watchers consider that to be when Eisner's leadership began to fail.

In 1994, Eisner put Disney Stores head Paul Pressler in charge of Disneyland. That's when things went downhill at Disneyland. Pressler thought the way to make money was to cut maintenance and reduce cleanliness. Pressler viewed attractions and shows as things that got in the way of profits, not as the reason that people buy tickets in the first place. He shifted the emphasis from attractions to merchandise. This approach increased profits in the short run. (Who cares about disgruntled guests in the short run if the profits for the current quarter can be improved?) Pressler was promoted to oversee the entire Disney Parks & Resorts business sector. His hand-picked successor at Disneyland, Cynthia Harriss, continued Pressler's policies at Disneyland with Pressler as her boss. And Eisner was Pressler's boss.

As bad as the Eisner/Pressler/Harriss mismanagement of Disneyland was, it wan't the worst thing they did. That would be Disney's California Adventure, which opened in 2001. The new park, built on the cheap and without an understanding of what guests expect from Disney parks, failed to attract guests and hemorrhaged red ink on the balance sheet.

Pressler left in 2002 to run The Gap (where his tenure was short because of poor financial performance). Pressler's departure from Disney meant Harriss lost her champion.

in late 2003, Disney Cruise Line president Matt Ouimet became the head of the Disneyland Resort. Ouimet did a remarkable job making Disneyland shine again. He provided guests with a wonderful celebration of the 50th anniversary of Disneyland in 2005, despite the short lead time he had. The bad years at Disneyland were over.

Robert Iger succeeded Eisner in 2005. Iger has critics on this forum, but gets my thanks for approving major investments such as the new Fantasyland at MK park and the $1 billion reinvention of Disney's California Adventure.

 

[tjkraz]

That's why i believe they had no choice but to throw the safe at California Adventure...not by choice.

Personally I think the DCA investment had more to do with its growth potential.

Before the wave of construction began, DCA wasn't even drawing 6 million guests per year.

Compare that to DL and MK getting about 16-17 million, Epcot at 11 mil, DHS and DAK around 9 mil. The entrance to DCA is literally 200' from Disneyland and they could barely get 1/3 of guests to make the trek.

The $1+ billion they budgeted for DCA is a fraction of the cost of a new park but it has the potential to finally jump-start its attendance.

I'm sure there was some element of pride involved, too. But strictly from a dollars and cents standpoint, $1 billion invested in DCA should yield greater returns than $1 billion invested in any other domestic park.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Personally I think the DCA investment had more to do with its growth potential.

Before the wave of construction began, DCA wasn't even drawing 6 million guests per year.

Compare that to DL and MK getting about 16-17 million, Epcot at 11 mil, DHS and DAK around 9 mil. The entrance to DCA is literally 200' from Disneyland and they could barely get 1/3 of guests to make the trek.

The $1+ billion they budgeted for DCA is a fraction of the cost of a new park but it has the potential to finally jump-start its attendance.

I'm sure there was some element of pride involved, too. But strictly from a dollars and cents standpoint, $1 billion invested in DCA should yield greater returns than $1 billion invested in any other domestic park.

yeah...i agree with you on the market cap...

But that still doesn't change the fact that they were embarassed into spending more than the initial budget on repairs within 10 years because some stupid suits tried to throw up nothing and hoped it would work.

That is the reality of it...Eisner was so convinced of his power/genius that he thought it didn't really matter anymore what you engineered, just if you slapped the logo on the front of it. As evidenced in all the recent park openings...some would argue back to MGM.

Wrong. And that is the dilemna they face going forward...you might make money of stale parks...but less than you would if you drive for something better.
I just wonder if they know it.

 

[articfox676]

All I want to know does this include the campsites? At your site not the stores?

 

[OKW Lover]

Interesting mix of news and rumor. Some seem to be equating cell coverage with WiFi. Not the same thing at all.

None of the mentioned benefits of in-park wifi coverage actually needs wifi. A good cell data signal will do just fine for most applications. Yes, you may need to break up into more, smaller cells as usage increases. Yes, the same would be true of wifi nodes. But again, they are not the same thing.

 

[tjkraz]

None of the mentioned benefits of in-park wifi coverage actually needs wifi. A good cell data signal will do just fine for most applications. Yes, you may need to break up into more, smaller cells as usage increases. Yes, the same would be true of wifi nodes. But again, they are not the same thing.

Cellular data coverage doesn't provide any benefits to people using an iPod Touch, iPad or dozens of other wifi enabled devices. Not to mention the cellular data caps which many people face. My wife used to be on a 200 MB monthly plan. Never went over the limit until our last visit to WDW.

Incidentally I've heard from multiple sources that free public wifi is being added to all of the theme parks. Not sure if it will be for all park guests or just some subset (i.e. those staying at Disney resort hotels.)

 

[anthony2k7]

Cellular data coverage doesn't provide any benefits to people using an iPod Touch, iPad or dozens of other wifi enabled devices. Not to mention the cellular data caps which many people face. My wife used to be on a 200 MB monthly plan. Never went over the limit until our last visit to WDW.

Incidentally I've heard from multiple sources that free public wifi is being added to all of the theme parks. Not sure if it will be for all park guests or just some subset (i.e. those staying at Disney resort hotels.)

indeed, plus the issue of cost for international visitors. Brits are advised to turn off data roaming when abroad to avoid bank breaking bills - so cell coverage would be no use.