Driver killed in monorail crash....

[sherry_car]

I have been lurking here for quite a while, and have read most of these posts. Thought it was time to add just a couple of random points.

1) Based on experience (I work on the space shuttle software), I can guarantee that news agencies get information wrong so often you can't even try to correct them all - correcting the press would be all you would do, and they still wouldn't get the information correct. Sometimes it is because they want to sensationalize and create a story from nothing, sometimes it is because they don't care enough to get the story accurate, and sometimes it is because they truly don't understand, but they always seem to get it wrong.

2) Accidents of this type seldom occur because 1 thing goes wrong or 1 person made a mistake. It almost always requires a series of things going wrong that were not anticipated to result in such a tragedy waiting to happen, and eventually occuring. Finding out the series of events in this case and searching for other potential combinations of errors, plus finding ways to "break the chain" should be (almost certainly is) the focus of the investigations at this point.

3) OSHA and the NTSB are involved, so we will eventually have a report on the cause. We will have to wait for it, and Disney probably won't offer anything until then, but we will have a report. After the full investigation is complete, and not before. Disney can't hide the answer, whether they want to or not.

4) As a person, but especially as a mother, I have to say how sorry I am for Austin's mother and loved ones. I can't imagine how she will get through this, but my prayers go out to her and all who knew him. He seems to have been a very special man.

 

[inkkognito]

Okay, this is disgusting (thankfully I missed it myself). A CM who knows I am a reporter for Examiner wrote to me this morning about re-creations of the crash on two Orlando TV stations yesterday using children's monorail toys! Apparently many CMs are writing to the stations to protest. Locals who might also want to write can click here for more info: http://bit.ly/iYUem

 

[DaveK]

Just had to post the link to a beautiful video tribute to Austin that a member posted recently on Youtube. May God continue to bless and comfort the family and friends of this wonderful young man...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O25NsqIGpjY

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

For those that have watched the news videos on the Orlando TV websites am I the only one who thinks they are making it sound worse about the two Monorail managers that were at Denny's during the time of the crash. Obvioulsy they should have been there during that time and not left a maintenance Cast Member in charge, however the Orlando media is saying how they were across the street from WDW which is not really true. If you notice all the TV stations are reporting across the street in front of the WDW entrance gate at Lake Buena Vista/535, since it's the only entrance area where they can stand. Also it's technically the only entrance across the street from WDW since guests can walk from Downtown Disney to the Crossroads Shopping Plaza, however all the other WDW entrances are not located across the street from anything like that since cars are coming from the various Interstates or toll highways. So is the Orlando media making things sound worse by saying the managers were across the street, when it's only true from that one specific entrance.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

This is not a political post. However, I would have watched FOX news for a very long time, however, after this most recent election and the way they treated the newly elected president..I just cant watch anymore. They not only pride themselves on being first, but also, right! The claim to have the only truth out there..Nowadays, I call them "Faux News.."

They are all "faux" - just in different ways and with different biases. What they have in common is the need to sensationalize stories and report half-truths to chase the ratings. We've seen it in this story, unfortunately.

 

[maroo]

Have you guys ever been "part of" a news story?

When something has happened at your school, town, work or to someone you know personally? Where you were fully aware of the facts, because you were there?

And then turned on the "news" to hear them talk about the story and get it completely wrong? It has happened so many times to me over the years that I don't trust any news sources anymore.

I do trust the CM's that are reporting about the switches - "this is how it is supposed to work" - because they are there each day and understand it. But that is about the only source I trust. And unless they were there that night, even they don't really know what happened.

I turned off CNN/Fox News/local TV when they talk about things like this...

Makes me wonder why I watch the news at all? They get the general facts right, most of the time, but in my experience, they don't report the "whole" story and sometimes miss the most important part of the story.

That being said...I am another person praying for Austin's family, the CM from the pink train, the family that was on board and all CM's at Disney that are having to deal with this.

 

[surfergirl602]

Just saw the video of Austin making little Christyan's dream come true by riding in the front of the monorail. What a true gift Austin was.

I don't even know you, Austin, but you will be missed.

 

[surfergirl602]

dp

 

[fairestoneofall]

I have read the reports and even if the switch did not work it seems to me that the seacond driver should have relized that he was on the wrong track. Even if he was in the back end and not the front once he seen there was a track to the right of him he should have known. I can not help but wonder what he was doing. I also wonder about the dispatch guy. Auston had time to see the other train stop and put the train in reverse. So why did the other driver just not stop. I went to google earth and looked at where the switch should have happened and there was plenty of time to stop the train before impact. I respect that Disney is careful before saying to much and I believe they are treating Austin's family with much care and respect.

Did you watch the video of Austin in the monorail with the family? In it, someone asks if he can see behind him and he answers not really or no (or something to that effect). So, that leads me to believe that the driver of pink couldn't really see where he was going. And it does look to be a good curve, so I don't think Austin saw the entire reverse process. I would guess (and again, just a guess) that he may have seen it when it was already too late.

Regarding most news media... while there are some reliable reporters, it's pretty much mostly sensationalism anymore. And a lot of news stations don't truly care about their victims. Several years ago, a friend of mine was shot in an attempted bank robbery (she survived). Her family specifically requested that her name not be released via the media. Well, within an hour, every local station had reported the incident AND given her full name out. It wasn't necessary to release her name and it was certainly not respectful of her family's wishes.

 

[PrincessBetsy]

I just watched the video of the family in the front of the monorail with Austin. He was such an amazing person and wonderful cast member. You will be missed by many. My prayers are with you and your family.

 

[Cmbar]

I have read the reports and even if the switch did not work it seems to me that the seacond driver should have relized that he was on the wrong track. Even if he was in the back end and not the front once he seen there was a track to the right of him he should have known. I can not help but wonder what he was doing. I also wonder about the dispatch guy. Auston had time to see the other train stop and put the train in reverse. So why did the other driver just not stop. I went to google earth and looked at where the switch should have happened and there was plenty of time to stop the train before impact. I respect that Disney is careful before saying to much and I believe they are treating Austin's family with much care and respect.

I agree that Austin clearly did not see the entire reverse because he would not have just sat there until it was too late to hit reverse. He also, I believe would have communitcated that PINK was on the wrong track. Obviously even the CM's on the station didn't see it and it appears to have happened in front of their eyes. They all had a kill pack. And the Pink Monorail driver was in the front of the trains backing around a huge curve. We can only speculate as to why he didn't realize that he was on the wrong beam, but most likely it is because the pilots rely on Central to give them the go when it is safe and the switch has occured. Evidently this is not the case and there was no one on the Station in central command that saw it. I doubt this would have happened earlier in the night. I think in the end it will be a combination of breakdowns and even the late hours having to do with a little more relaxed system plus the fact that they have already said they changed to a more stressful situation as far a running the trains faster to get everyone out for the 4th.

I feel so sorry for the family that was on the train. The part I don't understand is if they were coming from MK and needed to go back to Epcot (which was closed much earlier in the night) for their car, they would have had to get on at the TTC right? So was Austin just loading this family? It sounds like he loaded them and then was able to hit reverse a bit which is why they show the trains actually colliding outside the station. But I don't understand how that is possible with the video clearly in the station. I know it doesn't matter since this has a tragic ending, but I do feel sorry for the family on the monorail (of course along with the other driver and Austin's family). I know that if it had been me I would have felt guilty that I was the last run of the night because I left my car in the wrong place. I know it is NOT their fault, but I would have taken on that somehow I know. "if only I hadn't left my car there, Austin's train would have been done...."

One thing I can't get out of my head is that this poor man saw it coming and probably simply didn't have time to react. But in actuality this happens everyday everywhere to many, many people in traffic accidents. It is just hard to believe it happened here.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

And that's what I hate. "They stressed that this was not the cause of the crash", but they had to report it anyway. It is not at ALL unusual for managers to go off-site for lunch (whether that "lunch" is at noon or at 2am, based on your shift), and to stay in communication via radio or Blackberry. There's no rule against it, and no policy that tells you that you can't. But now, by the simple fact that the news reported it, it "doesn't look good."

If it doesn't have anything to do with what actually happened, then the news shouldn't report it and then say, "Oh ...by the way ... doesn't mean anything. Just sayin'." Sheesh. It's like the media runs out of things to comment on, so they just toss in whatever is out there.

Hate that.

news anchors love to report bad things on others (even when it isn't really bad), but when the shoe is on the other foot, they don't report it. The County where I live, one of our news anchors husband's was arrested for a very large real estate investment fraud thing he had going on. The station she was on would not report on that story! It was breaking news yet they kept mum on everything. The other stations were going to town on it.. sure, looked bad for their competition too.. then she finally resigned.. I want to say forced so the station could start reporting the news.. once she was gone.. that station too had it day and night..

The news is into selling news. They do not care if they get it right, just getting attention and high ratings. The meatier the story (even if half told lies), the higher the ratings are for them. They have a habbit of bringing up things that have no relevency to the story.. such as manager eating lunch off property.. big deal. I am sure they don't eat all their meals at their stations. Maybe for once, if just one day.. everyone every where did not purchase a paper, read it online or turn on the news.. the media may get the message.. either report only facts relating to the story.. get them straight, or don't bother to report them.. it just burns me up. This poor CM's family as well as every other CM that was working that night is going to be reading and hearing all this craziness.. just so the media can make money.. I really feel for these people.. even Disney.. they aren't doing a cover-up.. they are as much in the dark as everyone.. Just as when a plane goes down, is the airline in a cover-up? What about the trains that just recently derailed in DC.. were they in a cover-up? No, none of them were, but because this is an accident on Disney's property, many must assume it is a cover up. We just need to remember what assume means.. the first 3 letters will tell ya This is a family board or I would highlight it for ya..

sending my hugs to all the CM's involved in this horrific accident.. and to Austin's family..

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I feel so sorry for the family that was on the train. The part I don't understand is if they were coming from MK and needed to go back to Epcot (which was closed much earlier in the night) for their car, they would have had to get on at the TTC right?

The family could have driven to EPCOT & went there first. Left the car there since it is easier to do that & hop on the monorail over to the MK for the later closing hours. Then hop back on the monorail to get your car. The transportation always runs later than the parks for this reason. I know that is what I ususally do. I hate parking at the MK, I would rather leave my car in EPCOT & take the monorail back and forth. It is less of a hassle. You have to take another form of transporation even if you drive your car over to the MK anyway, so just hop on the monorail... and that may very well be what that family had done....

 

[Floridagram]

If this has been addressed before and I am not aware of it I apologize.

Now the NTSB has confirmed that one monorail backed into the other one, what I am not understanding is if purple was stopped outside the station how was the original video taken showing the monorails in the station and people around it and getting off? How did they get into the TTC?

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

If this has been addressed before and I am not aware of it I apologize.

Now the NTSB has confirmed that one monorail backed into the other one, what I am not understanding is if purple was stopped outside the station how was the original video taken showing the monorails in the station and people around it and getting off? How did they get into the TTC?

I was thinking the same thing, so I would also like to know the answer to that.

 

[dee47]

First let me say that my heart is broken over the loss of this phenomenal CM, and I keep his family and Pink's pilot in my thoughts, as well as the family that was on Purple when the crash occurred.

I was at a professional medical conference once where the guest speaker was talking about the "Swiss Cheese" theory of critical incidents, and he stressed this can apply to anything from medical errors to plane crashes. I think we're going to find out this theory applies here too.

Basically, the Swiss cheese theory says that every safety you put in place has a hole in it (hence the Swiss cheese) -- you can never have a 100% perfect safety system. In multi-layered systems, which exist in all life-critical environments (hospitals, mass transportation, etc.) if an error gets through one layer of safety it is usually stopped by the next layer of the one after that, and nothing happens. That's why we have redundancies.

However, once in a while something happens that aligns all the holes in the Swiss cheese slices (safety layers) right behind each other. When that happens, an error passes through all safety systems and you get a critical incident, where injuries or (as in this case, unfortunately) loss of life occurs.

So for example, we know the track switch system required a manual override of the MAPO system. That's a hole in the MAPO system and Disney fixed that on Monday morning, but it was still there Sunday night. There were obviously other holes in the switching procedures, communications, and maybe even break schedules of personnel so late at night, which I can't begin to know because I'm not (nor have I ever been) a Disney monorail pilot. (But I'd love to be, if I could, LOL!). What I'm getting at is that this won't turn out to be just one person's fault. We can only hope that the right lessons are learned from it, and more holes can be plugged.

And let that be Austin's enduring legacy -- an even better safety system in place for what is already the safest transportation system in the world. (Really, how many transportation systems have carried over 1 billion people over 38 years with 1 fatality???)

 

[Cmbar]

The family could have driven to EPCOT & went there first. Left the car there since it is easier to do that & hop on the monorail over to the MK for the later closing hours. Then hop back on the monorail to get your car. The transportation always runs later than the parks for this reason. I know that is what I ususally do. I hate parking at the MK, I would rather leave my car in EPCOT & take the monorail back and forth. It is less of a hassle. You have to take another form of transporation even if you drive your car over to the MK anyway, so just hop on the monorail... and that may very well be what that family had done....

I am sure that is what they did! But do the monrails run a full four hours later (Epcot closed at 10pm that night) just to run people who left their car at Epcot?? I don't think I would have done that. I agree it is easier, but I personally would not think the Monorail would be running to Epcot four hours after closing. I thought is was a max of two hours. I have no way of knowing why this family chose to leave the MK later than 1am (assume some time to get out of the park and to the Monrail station at MK) and expected to get back to Epcot. Maybe someone in transportation told them the Monorails would be running that late to Epcot or maybe the Monorail always runs the Epcot route as long as the MK.

I am just saying I wouldn't have taken that kind of chance (we have been stranded at the TTC before and had a nice CM who was getting off duty take us and another clueless couple to our resorts in a van, The only reason we trusted her is because she wore Purple pants!) So we tend to over obsess about whether the buses or trains are runing. So that is why I would have questioned myself had this been my family. I hope and pray this family has gotten over the shock of it all. What a tragic thing to have happen in your vacation. I hope it was at the end of their vacation and not the beginning. Even though all of them were ok I am sure it was very traumatic for the children and even more for the parents to realize they could have easily been hurt more seriously. This is just so sad for everyone involved.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I am sure that is what they did! But do the monrails run a full four hours later (Epcot closed at 10pm that night) just to run people who left their car at Epcot?? I don't think I would have done that. I agree it is easier, but I personally would not think the Monorail would be running to Epcot four hours after closing. I thought is was a max of two hours. I have no way of knowing why this family chose to leave the MK later than 1am (assume some time to get out of the park and to the Monrail station at MK) and expected to get back to Epcot. Maybe someone in transportation told them the Monorails would be running that late to Epcot or maybe the Monorail always runs the Epcot route as long as the MK.

I am just saying I wouldn't have taken that kind of chance (we have been stranded at the TTC before and had a nice CM who was getting off duty take us and another clueless couple to our resorts in a van, The only reason we trusted her is because she wore Purple pants!) So we tend to over obsess about whether the buses or trains are runing. So that is why I would have questioned myself had this been my family. I hope and pray this family has gotten over the shock of it all. What a tragic thing to have happen in your vacation. I hope it was at the end of their vacation and not the beginning. Even though all of them were ok I am sure it was very traumatic for the children and even more for the parents to realize they could have easily been hurt more seriously. This is just so sad for everyone involved.

I want to say it is 2 hours after the latest park closing.. I could be wrong..but it would stand to reason for those who park at EPCOT then go to MK for the longer hours. While it may have been 4 hours after EPCOT's closing, it wasn't for the MK. Again, I could be wrong, but that was my impression on how they ran. So far I have never been stuck, I may have just been lucky.
I could not agree with you more, the family with the children on that monorail, while they were physically ok, mentally I am sure they were shaken.. and the poor kids... It is sad any way you look at it.. for all involved. It is something that will have a lasting impression on that family. The MK will have a memory for that family that none of us would want

 

[Traveliz]

I am sure that is what they did! But do the monrails run a full four hours later (Epcot closed at 10pm that night) just to run people who left their car at Epcot?? I don't think I would have done that. I agree it is easier, but I personally would not think the Monorail would be running to Epcot four hours after closing. I thought is was a max of two hours. I have no way of knowing why this family chose to leave the MK later than 1am (assume some time to get out of the park and to the Monrail station at MK) and expected to get back to Epcot. Maybe someone in transportation told them the Monorails would be running that late to Epcot or maybe the Monorail always runs the Epcot route as long as the MK.

I am just saying I wouldn't have taken that kind of chance (we have been stranded at the TTC before and had a nice CM who was getting off duty take us and another clueless couple to our resorts in a van, The only reason we trusted her is because she wore Purple pants!) So we tend to over obsess about whether the buses or trains are runing. So that is why I would have questioned myself had this been my family. I hope and pray this family has gotten over the shock of it all. What a tragic thing to have happen in your vacation. I hope it was at the end of their vacation and not the beginning. Even though all of them were ok I am sure it was very traumatic for the children and even more for the parents to realize they could have easily been hurt more seriously. This is just so sad for everyone involved.

I was at Epcot that day and staying at the Poly and the monorail signs at the TTC indicated that the Epcot monorail was running until 2:30 that night and the MK one was running until 3:00 AM so if you were there that day and had transportation issues/questions or were even just walking past as I was you would have clearly seen by the signage that the monorails would be operating very late that night.

Liz

 

[SandrA9810]

Ok, the monorails run up to two hours past park closing. There is no bus from MK to Epcot, the only way to get there is by the monorail, always has been, always will be. It's not unusual that the monorail was running that late to take guests back to thier car at Epcot. There's busses that run from the TTC to take guests back to AK and HS. They can't stop running, because they can't leave a family stranded without thier car.
I know that about 1.5hrs past MK closing they will shut down the express beam and only run on the resort line, so they can dwindle down the amount of trains on the beam for the night, since the spur to the roundhouse is off of the express line. I have been told to get on the resort line before because the express was closed for the night. It's one of those things of "sorry you're the last person out of the park, if you wanted the express you shouldn't wait till the last minute, and yes the resort will take a few extra minutes because of the stop." And that way they can get trains back to the roundhouse without stopping every one on the express beam. And I'm sure that late at night, they probably only leave 1-2 monorails on the epcot line for straglers.
Trust me, it's a pain to get people to clear out of the park. The only thing security can do is prevent them from going back into the park. but they can't stop them from lingering in the shops in front of them. I've seen it done at every park, eventually you see this line up of security and cast blocking the path way. So it's not a surprise that there were people on the monorail that late even after MK closing.
You seem to think, ohh park close at 1am, every one is to thier car by 1:30am... totally not the case. There's people that push thier luck by stragling behind for like 3hrs after park closing for "shopping". I know this because for parade preview of the P&P parade for cast, we were all told to wait in toontown (it closes 1hr prior to park close). So they put the rope up and we're all standing there, 1hr rolls around.... then we were moved to tomorrowland, another hour rolls around... then about 3hrs past park closing we were finally let onto main street to view the parade. I know the parade started hours after it was supposed to. But they couldn't kick the guest out and they just kept lingering waiting and waiting for no reason... taking random pictures of a dead main street.